Laws involving taking a gun with you on an airplane

[Dowter]

What are the laws involving taking a gun with you on a n airplane.  I would like to go to some big matches next year but I'm afraid that if I don't follow some obscure procedure I'll become an instant fellon.

All help on this question would be greatly appreciated.

[EricW]

Dowter,

If you put the gun, UNLOADED, into a secure locked container and have your ammunition in a *separate*, locked container, you should be fine.  

You will have to declare the firearm at the checkin counter.  They will give you a tag that you will sign declaring the gun to be unloaded, which you will place inside the case with the gun.  Some of the more savvy agents will ask you to demonstrate that the gun is unloaded.  I recommend having the action locked open before you ever leave home.  Why freak out 600 people when all you had to do was open the case toward the ticket agent?  

Note that the airlines have widely varying regulations as to the quantity of ammunition you can bring.  Do check first.  The quantities vary from 400 rounds to 50lbs(no specific round count).  The ammunition needs to be in cellular type packaging designed to hold ammunition.  No plastic baggies or loose ammo in cans.  

One trick that I do to discourage theft is to put my handguns inside of my regular baggage after doing the declaration.  Then, they just look like another bag.  This is perfectly legal.  

Don't worry too much, just call the airline to verify the rules before you go.

Eric

One note:  Please DO NOT try to get out of declaring your firearm by just checking your bag.  It's a felony.  Now that they're doing 100% X-Ray of all baggage, you will be found out.  A couple more screwups on the part of gunowners and the FAA surely will ban guns in checked baggage.

[actionshooter]

Ya what Eric said. Just follow the rules and don't forget to declare the firearm. My wife is a travel agent and she has been watching the regulations since 9-11 and nothing has changed (yet).

Steve

[benos]

what EricW said!

be

[ErikW]

In addition,

Act like you know what you're doing and you do it all the time. The agents generally don't know what to do and some nearly panic when you declare. Many get their supervisors.

Make sure they don't do the paperwork for on-plane-carry and declaration to the captain. You want the "I declare the firearm is unloaded" tag.

Don't let them put a "steal me" tag outside the bag. It's a federal felony for them to identify that the bag has a gun. (Some do anyway with the codes on their tracking stickers, the bastards.)

Most domestic airlines have an 11 pound ammo restriction. Some have packaging requirements but I haven't seen them enforced. Use factory boxes anyway.

TWA has a laughable paperwork requirement for ammo.

[Detlef]

on-plane-carry paperwork? Cool! I'll try that next time....

--Detlef

[EricW]

If it makes a difference in anyone's travel decision, Delta allowed up to 50 lbs in ammo on my last trip.  They also recently liberalized their rules to allow ammuntion and the firearm to be stored in a common (locked) container with the ammuntion.  

I had a really pleasant experience with Delta the last time I declared.  They just bent over backwards to make life easy for me.  Very professional, never made a fuss.  

Eric

[EricW]

Detlef,

If some of the gate agents had their way, they *would* let you carry onboard.  The last time I declared, they assumed I would be carrying onboard.  The guy at the desk looked almost crestfallen when I told him I'd just be checking it.

E

[BigDave]

there is a guy here named Lumpy who gave me some pointers when I went to AZ to train with BE.

When they ask you place the tags with the unloaded gun, in your locked case, in your luggage, ask to access your gun behinde the counter or in a private room.  For the same reasons others have said, and espcially since 9/11/01, you don't want some hero to see your gun and freak out.

One other thing I do with all my checked baggage is to put plastic zip-ties on the zippers as a sort of quicky padlock.  Yeah, they don't do much in function, but I think it is enough of a deterrant to make them look past your bag.  Also, I padlock the hardsided gun case in my luggage with a Master Lock X series lock that exposes very little of the lock bar.  On my SKB case, less than 1/8" of the lock bar is exposed.

Biggest thing is to talk like you know what you are talking about. Most counter agents don't have a clue. It is always a good idea to call ahead and talk to the specific airline to get THEIR specific reg's.

[TDean]

I've done this twice in the last 4 weeks.

Once with SouthWest, once with Alaska.  My current understanding is the gun to be locked in a "hard case".

Ammunition to be in a "approved ammunition container" and stored seperately from the gun.

Real life:  Some agents act as if slapped in the face when you declare a firearm.  My wife knows I just love to watch their reactions.  Some are very professional, some are indifferent, some freak!  I've run into all three types (I'm sure there's more) during the last few weeks.

I've never been asked to "show ammo".  I don't declare it, I don't have to, so maybe that's why they don't ask.

Gun I usually field strip to show "absolute inert state" when/if agent does visual.  If I doesn't look like a gun, it takes the pressure off the dumb bastards.  I like to install a Master Lock trigger lock on the reciever just to further appease the ignorant stumps.

What ever you do don't say this..."I've got a gun..( long-pause)...in my bag."  They hate that!

(I've never done that,..just a bit of humor)

[Lumpy]

Here is the original post I made that BigDave refers to.

Hi Guys,

Here is what I do for WestJet (Canadian Econo Airline). Most airlines have similar requirements.

Handgun unloaded and disabled (Cable Lock/Trigger lock)  in a hard case that is also locked. Some airlines require the bolt to be removed from rifles as a form of disabling. This get's put in luggage bag #1.

Ammunition is normally restricted to 11lbs/5kg for International flights. I believe your allowed 50lbs with Horizion if the flight is within the US including Alaska. Ammo must be in factory boxes or equivalent. DO NOT attempt to ship it loose. I use Dillon ammo boxes with cloth in the top to prevent the ammo from rattling, then duct tape them shut so there is no chance of them coming open in flight. Ammo must be in a seperate bag from the firearm. This gets put in Luggage bag #2.

All this is declared at the airline counter. Now the fun begins, some airlines are pretty easy going some have counter Nazi's that treat you like a criminal from the start. The best way to get through this is to be confident and give the impression like you know what your doing and have done this before.

When I walk of to the counter this is what I say. "Hi, I have a unloaded, locked and hard cased firearm to declare in this bag. In this bag I have under 11lbs/5kg of ammo in factory ammo cases."

Usually at this point they say "Oh, you've done this before!", nod and agree...

Hopefully from there it is smooth sailing. A few points to remember. If you do get a counter Nazi, do not let them :

Inspect your firearm at the counter. Make them take you to a back room to do this. Last thing you need is some weeny in back of the line to yell "GUN!" and then all hell breaks loose. If they insist, you then ask for Security/Police/RCMP to be present.

Some airlines require the firearm to be tagged with a high viz "unloaded Firearm" tag. DO NOT let them put this on the outside of your baggage. This is a big STEAL ME tag as your baggage comes around the luggage thingymabob. The tag is supposed to go on the gun case which can be stored inside your baggage. If they insist, you THEN insist that they insure your firearm at their expense if they wish to advertise it.

If your travelling into Canada/US, please make sure you have your paperwork in order. Normally the counter person doesn't care. DO declare it to the nice Customs person who will be asking you "where are your going?" and "what your are doing?". They normally check your paperwork on the way back so be prepared. Fill out your customs declaration card, and remember to declare your firearm.

It's a fairly easy task to travel with firearms. What I've described is how we Canadians do it.

Please DO NOT take my word on everything typed above, contact the airline your travelling with. Ask them their firearms policy and have them FAX them in WRITING to you. Most counter Nazi's don't know their own rules, so you should.

Best of luck,

Lumpy

F37910

[Detlef]

just one more small hint that has helped in the past: When you check in your luggage and get your seat assigment/ boarding pass/luggage tags, *first* do everything unrelated to the firearm (get seats, show passport etc. asf.), *then* check in all bags that do *not* contain the firearm, then, as the very last thing, present your firearms luggage piece and say *for this bag here I need an unloaded firearms tag* (do not yell "I HAVE A GUN!!!", TDean pointed that out already...). That puts a little bit of beneficial pressure on the agent. Is (s)he *really* going to be nasty, endangering a time- and effort-consuming undo of all that (s)he just did, with possibly a long line behind you?

--Detlef

[Carlos]

"(Some do anyway with the codes on their tracking stickers, the bastards.) "

-care to name names? I have miles saved up on several airlines so I have a choice of carriers. Also, they recently arrested & are convicting a baggage handler from Reagan Airport (previously "national") who was going through baggage & stealing; no idea if a single item was ever recovered. I'd prefer to use a carrier that follows the law & does not mark the outside of baggage - with orange tags or with codes.

[shred]

There is a story floating around about United and a row of 'F's, but I'm not terribly convinced by it. I've also flown them and not had the F-thing either.