ELS Belt without using Inner Belt?

[greatlakes08]

I bought a used Safarland ELS belt with the ratcheting buckle. When I tighten it up with the ratchet my inner belt forms an uncomfortable lump in it. I can tighten the inner belt more to avoid so much of a lump but that defeats the purpose of the ability to loosen up after the stage. Has anyone gone without using an inner belt ? 

 

[Pcew73]

i have never used an inner belt with my ratchet set up.  I had the same problem as you and that it bunched up and i couldn't stand it.  My belt has never moved once i cinch it down and it stays in place while running.   

[greatlakes08]

I am glad to hear I wasn't the only one! I tightened mine down today and I think it will be fine as long as I don't pull a mag out wrong and it pulls the belt up...

[Nolan]

How are you overlapping the inner belt in relation to the outer belt?  ie. inner belt overlaps in the front and outer belt overlaps in the rear.  If so try moving the inner belt overlap 90 degrees to one side or the other.

 

Nolan

[greatlakes08]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will try moving my  inner belt overlap around

[StealthyBlagga]

Just be aware that some rules (e.g. USPSA) actually REQUIRE the belt (inner or outer) to pass through your pants belt loops. Make sure you are not in violation for the matches you plan to attend.

[joelogic]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:49 AM, StealthyBlagga said:

Just be aware that some rules (e.g. USPSA) actually REQUIRE the belt (inner or outer) to pass through your pants belt loops. Make sure you are not in violation for the matches you plan to attend.

 

I thought this was discussed before?  Rule says secured at waist.  In the cold states people will wear their belt over their jacket.  Or maybe I am misremembering.  

[StealthyBlagga]

1 hour ago, joelogic said:

 

I thought this was discussed before?  Rule says secured at waist.  In the cold states people will wear their belt over their jacket.  Or maybe I am misremembering.  

 

I don't know about any earlier discussion. The applicable rule is:

 

5.2.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and allied equipment must be worn during the course of fire; the belt must be worn at the waist level, which is deemed to be at the same level as the original belt loops on the lower garment. (See 5.2.3.1 for exceptions.) The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. The belt may be removed between courses of fire.

 

Simply wearing the outer belt without anything passing through belt loops does not seem to meet this standard. Of course, this is just my plain language reading... no doubt there is a Troy Facebook Ruling that I am unaware of 

[Sarge]

Just now, StealthyBlagga said:

 

I don't know about any earlier discussion. The applicable rule is:

 

5.2.3 Unless specified in the written stage briefing, the belt carrying the holster and allied equipment must be worn during the course of fire; the belt must be worn at the waist level, which is deemed to be at the same level as the original belt loops on the lower garment. (See 5.2.3.1 for exceptions.) The belt or the inner belt or both must be either securely fixed at the waist or secured with a minimum of three belt loops. The belt may be removed between courses of fire.

 

Simply wearing the outer belt without anything passing through belt loops does not seem to meet this standard. Of course, this is just my plain language reading... no doubt there is a Troy Facebook Ruling that I am unaware of 

There is. As long as it’s tight and secure it’s good

[StealthyBlagga]

41 minutes ago, Sarge said:

There is. As long as it’s tight and secure it’s good

 

Hmmmm. Is this a formal published ruling or an ad hoc opinion given by Troy that you can point me to? In the absence of something in writing from a higher authority, when I'm the RO I'm going to expect a belt to be securely fixed (e.g. through loops, sewn to the pants etc.) as opposed to simply being "tight" (which is a subjective term that does not seem to satisfy the plain language of the rule)... the OP should consider this before he makes the equipment decision he is asking about.

 

 

[joelogic]

The key word is "or".

 

Secured at waist is simple enough.  

[Sarge]

2 hours ago, StealthyBlagga said:

 

Hmmmm. Is this a formal published ruling or an ad hoc opinion given by Troy that you can point me to? In the absence of something in writing from a higher authority, when I'm the RO I'm going to expect a belt to be securely fixed (e.g. through loops, sewn to the pants etc.) as opposed to simply being "tight" (which is a subjective term that does not seem to satisfy the plain language of the rule)... the OP should consider this before he makes the equipment decision he is asking about.

 

 

No. There are several “ors” in that rule. Securely fixed means it won’t move around much or fall off. I have been there when RM’s were called over and they simply checked to see if it was secure then called it good. One of my state matches a few years back an RO CALLED THE RM because the belt was up by some old geezers boobs. I was there when he said it just needs to be at your waist. It got lowered and was good.

The word OR makes that legal.

edited to add there are also a few old timers that use suspenders to hold the belt in place. Secured without belt loops again!

Edited February 4, 2020 by Sarge

[Southpaw]

I'm not certain when this discussion came up, I think it was during my CRO class, but I was told the "securely fixed at the waist" requirement is met if shooter can draw gun and mags without belt coming up with them (and without holding belt down with other hand). Belt loops not required if this is met.

[StealthyBlagga]

OK, sounds reasonable... how often do you hear that here

Edited February 5, 2020 by StealthyBlagga

[Southpaw]