When Is A Junior Ready For Camp?

[MikeFoley]

At what level should a junior be prior to going to camp? A parent called me this morning with questions, and I want to answer them truthfully, and help them prepare to reach their goal whether it is next year or another year.

[AikiDale]

I think you're ready, go for it!

[MikeFoley]

I think you're ready, go for it! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That got me laughing, and I would go if I thought no one would catch me. Maybe we need a camp for adults too!

[AikiDale]

There are shooting camps for kids and women. Real men just have to go shoot or sign up for private lessons. Flagrant discrimination at its best....

[Nemo]

FO,

Guess you're talking about Camp Shootout... Right? Well, I had the chance to take my kids there this past summer. Age range for the camp is 12 to 17. All skill levels were represented this year, from M-class to U's.

Campers must be up to speed on gun and range SAFETY, know the range commands and have a basic knowledge of their gun and gear. Leave the technique to Jerry and Kay... draw, reload and running speed as well as splits, transition and the like, do not matter. Camp will take care of that.

Another thing the camper needs to have "down" is his personal higiene... Some of my campers this year were kinda' hydrophobic. They decided to take a shower when I prepared a bucket of water with PineSol and left it on top of the kitchen counter with a note:

"This is what you'll get if you don't shower tonight"

It worked!

Hope this helps,

[MikeFoley]

Thanks Nemo, that is exactly what I was looking for. The shooter in question is 13 and has only shot 3 USPSA matches, and some IDPA. He will have more experience by next year, and a classification too. Were there shooters there in all Divisions of USPSA? This guy is a Production shooter. Thanks again.

[Nemo]

FO,

Sorry it took me so long, wasn't keeping up with the thread. At this year's Camp there were campers shooting in all divisions, including kids with singlestack 45's. There were at least 3 youngens shooting production. My kids shot Glocks but in limited.

Your 13 y.o. will do just fine. My Francisco is 12 and he had a blast... so much that he didn't want to leave at the end, for more than one reason... (see pic)

[Hey QuicksDraw!]

Smart Kid!!!!

[MikeFoley]

Thanks again Nemo, I passed a link to this thread to the mother of the production shooter. I would have wanted to stay at camp forever.

[chuckbradley]

Mike if your talking about the same fine young man that I had the pleasure shooting with last Sunday then I would say in my opinion he is ready for camp, especially by the time it comes up next year.

Austin thoroughly enjoyed his camp experience this year. He learned alot and made some new freinds. I dont recall him having one negative thing to say about it.

[Carmoney]

Has anyone heard of any kids shooting Revo division at Camp Shoot-Out??

[MikeFoley]

Mike if your talking about the same fine young man that I had the pleasure shooting with last Sunday then I would say in my opinion he is ready for camp, especially by the time it comes up next year.

Austin thoroughly enjoyed his camp experience this year. He learned alot and made some new freinds. I dont recall him having one negative thing to say about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the same young man, and he is a good kid, very eager to participate. He will be much more experienced by the time Camp Shootout rolls around. If there is anything you can recommend he do to prepare and improve, I am sure it would be appreciated.

[Nemo]

Car$,

For this year's camp Lil' Big Joe brought two M-10's and did most of his classes with them. If you're thinking of sending Sam, think no more. Go for it! I'm sure Jerry will take good care of him.

[chuckbradley]

Mike if your talking about the same fine young man that I had the pleasure shooting with last Sunday then I would say in my opinion he is ready for camp, especially by the time it comes up next year.

Austin thoroughly enjoyed his camp experience this year. He learned alot and made some new freinds. I dont recall him having one negative thing to say about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the same young man, and he is a good kid, very eager to participate. He will be much more experienced by the time Camp Shootout rolls around. If there is anything you can recommend he do to prepare and improve, I am sure it would be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was giving him pointers during the match. I try to get them across in a way they think about it enough so they see what they did or know what to look for. Nothing like seeing it on your own, then it sticks with you. Just telling a fellow shooter do it the way i do isnt going to go very far.

I tell you what has me really frustrated is my own son, 13, started shooting this year. He shoots a glock and his trigger jerk is so bad. We work on it and it gets better then all of a sudden we shoot a stage and he is bouncing rounds off the ground way in front of the target or putting them in the bottom d zone or a no shoot if its there. I ahve tried everything I know. Give him an unloaded gun and he jerks it way down. He sees it but it just doesnt seem to help. I tell him to concentrate on squeezing the trigger at the same time as he holds the sights on target. I explain it requires concentration on both at the same time. Most have this problem becuase they put the sights on target then their mind leaves that task and goes to the trigger and the sights move. This boy had some of the same problem but not near as bad.

I will help him whenever i can. Maybe he can shoot with my boys soon.

[MikeFoley]

Chuck, that sounds like a plan, letting the juniors shoot together. I had worked with another member's son once last year on the Glock trigger jerk by letting him line up the sights on a popper and pressing the trigger for him. He was getting every hit that way, so we started handing the loaded pistol to him, not telling him whether there was a live round in the chamber or not, and he observed his push or jerk when there was no round. We had him manipulate the trigger to let each shot be a surprise, and he improved. In minutes we had him shooting better, but I think if it isn't practiced and consciously forced, it will deteriorate back to the point of jerking until the proper method is the habit. I intend to practice with with John soon in this same manner.

Edited September 22, 2005 by fomeister

[AikiDale]

I tell you what has me really frustrated is my own son, 13, started shooting this year. He shoots a glock and his trigger jerk is so bad. We work on it and it gets better then all of a sudden we shoot a stage and he is bouncing rounds off the ground way in front of the target

Just to keep this in perspective he has GM genes. He was shooting at steel poppers a couple of weeks ago and knocked over all three with shots skipped off the ground!

[MikeFoley]

Had first practice session with this shooter on Monday. We worked on his stance, grip, hold, sight alignment, and trigger control. We used one of Saul's drills from Perfect Practice, and saw improvement in accuracy in just one hour. We started at 10 yards, then moved to 7, then back to 10. I hope to increase the distance as we go up to some of the 20 yard drills. His gun handling and muzzle discipline are also getting very confident as I saw in the match on Sunday. He too observed the pushing down of the gun in anticipation of recoil when given a gun he thought to be loaded. He will be dryfiring some drills I gave him for trigger control, and we will practice again next week. It was a lot of fun doing this, and you don't have to be a pro to help, as long as you understand the fundamentals.

Edited October 6, 2005 by fomeister

[Nik Habicht]

I tell  you what has me really frustrated is my own son, 13, started shooting this year. He shoots a glock and his trigger jerk is so bad. We work on it and it gets better then all of a sudden we shoot a stage and he is bouncing rounds off the ground way in front of the target or putting them in the bottom d zone or a no shoot if its there. I ahve tried everything I know. Give him an unloaded gun and he jerks it way down. He sees it but it just doesnt seem to help. I tell him to concentrate on squeezing the trigger at the same time as he holds the sights on target. I explain it requires concentration on both at the same time. Most have this problem becuase they put the sights on target then their mind leaves that task and goes to the trigger and the sights move.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chuck,

I did that a little in the beginning. I solved it by spending hours just playing with the trigger in dry fire --- not looking at the sights, not even holding the gun in front of me. Just pointed the muzzle in a safe direction, stroke the trigger, cycle the slide, let the trigger out to reset, and stroke it back again. After a couple of weeks of this, I found that in both dry and live fire, my fingers just moved on their own --- pulling the trigger almost to the breaking point (kind of like staging a revolver trigger), verifying sight alignment, and then breaking the shot, Release to reset and repeat......

[Kingman]

As a soon to be middle school teacher I can post some developmental theories about wether students are ready to go to camp or not. But thats not really what you need to hear.

I will say that I attended Camp Perry Juniors shooting camp when I was 10.

Developmentally the only thing I can tell you is be sure the instructors are reaching for multiple learning styles. Hands on works well for 95% of students but they still learn visually and other methods. On top of that they need to lay out some clear objectives for the course. I realize that any training helps somewhat. But looking at things recently from a teachers standpoint I see a lot of things that could be done to improve the training we are doing to teach the youngsters how to shoot.

[Nick Weidhaas]

Mike if your talking about the same fine young man that I had the pleasure shooting with last Sunday then I would say in my opinion he is ready for camp, especially by the time it comes up next year.

Austin thoroughly enjoyed his camp experience this year. He learned alot and made some new freinds. I dont recall him having one negative thing to say about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is the same young man, and he is a good kid, very eager to participate. He will be much more experienced by the time Camp Shootout rolls around. If there is anything you can recommend he do to prepare and improve, I am sure it would be appreciated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was giving him pointers during the match. I try to get them across in a way they think about it enough so they see what they did or know what to look for. Nothing like seeing it on your own, then it sticks with you. Just telling a fellow shooter do it the way i do isnt going to go very far.

I tell you what has me really frustrated is my own son, 13, started shooting this year. He shoots a glock and his trigger jerk is so bad. We work on it and it gets better then all of a sudden we shoot a stage and he is bouncing rounds off the ground way in front of the target or putting them in the bottom d zone or a no shoot if its there. I ahve tried everything I know. Give him an unloaded gun and he jerks it way down. He sees it but it just doesnt seem to help. I tell him to concentrate on squeezing the trigger at the same time as he holds the sights on target. I explain it requires concentration on both at the same time. Most have this problem becuase they put the sights on target then their mind leaves that task and goes to the trigger and the sights move. This boy had some of the same problem but not near as bad.

I will help him whenever i can. Maybe he can shoot with my boys soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chuck- RE: Your son's trigger jerk issue:

My son Nick (age 12) had the same promblem with trigger jerk. What we learned was that he was "thinking about or focusing on" the trigger pull and not putting his focus where it needed to be, on the sights. The fix came when he got to participate in a Todd Jarrett class and Todd was covering shooting on the move. Well guess what happened when we started shooting on the move?? Nick stopped jerking the trigger and made nice hits. Why? Todd said, and I agree, it was because of the added difficulty of shooting on the move, Nick focused on his front sight while he was moving. He wasn't thinking about the trigger any more. His hard focus was the front sight and his subconscious pulled the trigger.......no more trigger jerk. This experience allowed him to see/experience the difference himself and it has not been a real problem since. He also went to Camp Shootout last summer. I can't say enough about it. His confidence and increased skill level after he returned was pretty cool.

Hope this helps.

Nick-