World Shoot - Lessons Learned

[BritinUSA]

I thought I would start this thread off as a place to store issues that we as shooters in USA need to get sorted out before the next World Shoot. Obviously there were some major ones, but there may also be some minor ones that only those that attended would know about.

The objective here is to document these problems and then forward them to USPSA in the hope that we can make the World Shoot experience just a little bit less stressful for those that compete and for those stuck at home installing carpet (it's a long story, don't get me started ) and waiting for results.

1. The first issue was ammunition. Exporting vast quantities of this stuff is usually enough to get the State Department all hot and bothered. I do not know exactly what caused the hold-up but I suspect that a lot of shooters found out very late that they won a slot to the World Shoot and this delayed the paperwork with the Department of State for the export permits. If this is so then perhaps we need to work with USPSA and IPSC to ensure that EVERYONE knows who will be attending the WS at least 6 months before the start of the match.

We know where the next World Shoot will take place, we know the approximate time. There is no reason why USPSA should not start negotiations with Dept. of State NOW in order to ensure that we have a process/procedure in place which will guarantee the safe and secure arrival of our ammo.

About 7 years ago when I was in this country on a non-immigrant visa, I needed a temporary import/export permit to take my guns to Greece and back for the European Champs. The paperwork was delayed, so I called the office to be told that there were about 12 people processing these forms and 11 of them were out on vacation (this was in June/July) and that only one person was left to process paperwork for the whole bloody country. We need to be better prepared.

2. The results took a long time to come out. For every shooter at a WS, there are probably 10-20 friends and family just itching to know how they got on. USPSA needs to bring this issue up with IPSC management to ensure that future WS post the interim results (not including the pre-match) regularly during the match and to promptly post the final results (including teams) within 2-3 hours of the final stage results being posted.

3. Saul's excellent work posting articles about the WS showed the high level of interest in receiving day to day reports from the match. Should USPSA pay for someone to attend each WS, not to shoot but to write up match reports, take photo's etc ? Such articles could be used to promote USPSA in this country. Perhaps supplying them to non-shooting sports magazines etc.

4. No wash-cloths in the hotels. This is apparently a serious issue...

5. Team selection: Did we send our best shooters ? Is the mechanism for picking the teams the correct one, or should something else be tried ?

Any other issues that affected our shooters that we should address ?

Let's try to be positive and come up with problems and some constructive ideas on how to address them. We need to put up a better showing at these World Shoots. USA came away from this match with 2 Champions, Standard and Revolver... We are capable of much more than this, though this is not a criticism of our champions, we should support ALL those that represented USA, whether team member or not so that we put forward a strong field of relaxed and happy shooters ready for the next big one.

[BritinUSA]

6. Team Manager. Should USPSA have a team manager, someone to get over to Bali ahead of everyone else, shoot the pre-match and find out all about the stages ? They could then brief the US team (and anyone else from USA).

They could also handle arbitrations, work with the local customs officials when the US contigent arrives to help smooth the way, etc.. Basically do all the odd little bits and pieces to ensure that the teams can concentrate on the match.

[bgary]

6. Team Manager. Should USPSA have a team manager,

USPSA *does* send a team manager. John Amidon is there specifically to help things go as smoothly as possible for the team, including such things as you've mentioned. And based on a post that Julie made last week, he does a pretty good job of helping US shooters even if they aren't on the team.

B

[ErikW]

Get schedules. When do the buses come, and to which hotels? When and where are the opening and closing ceremonies? I kid you not, we didn't even know if and when a bus would take us to the range. We didn't have directions to the range for a taxi driver.

Also, it sure would be nice to be met at the airport by a local language-speaking match official of some sort who can smooth things over with the customs authorities. Same thing on the way out, if needed.

[BritinUSA]

Also, it sure would be nice to be met at the airport by a local language-speaking match official of some sort who can smooth things over with the customs authorities. Same thing on the way out, if needed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is surprising, at both the Philippines and Brazil we were met by a match official. The Philippines even had a booth if I remember correctly. They had all the paperwork ready to go along with a shuttle bus to take us to the hotel.

I'll add it to the list... I intend to let this thread run for a week or two then compile everything and send it off to USPSA, along with any recommendations that people add so hopefully none of this occurs again.

Thanks for the input.

[BritinUSA]

6. Team Manager. Should USPSA have a team manager,

USPSA *does* send a team manager. John Amidon is there specifically to help things go as smoothly as possible for the team, including such things as you've mentioned. And based on a post that Julie made last week, he does a pretty good job of helping US shooters even if they aren't on the team.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Bruce. I did not know that, thanks for the info

[shred]

Suggestions for first-time competitors so they have a slightly better idea what to expect-- not necessarily the shooting per-se (which might also be good), but the rest of it-- bring extra shirts and trinkets to trade with the other teams, should I bring a chair? What will or won't be available at the range for food, drinks, supplies, parts, vendors and such? What's appropriate for the opening and closing ceremonies? Will there be food at either? Who do I call if I get called for a DQ? Will there be washcloths? (note to Eric-- I have a souvenier embroidered WS XIV washcloth. Neener Neener)

[Wakal]

On the ammunition...my sources (both folks at the match talking to Ivan, and my contacts in Customs and State) indicate that the US paperwork was complete and accurate. The shipper refused to actually pick up the shipment in Miami because he felt that he needed a Equador "tax licence" of some sort to import ammo lest he be hit with a 50%-of-value duty.

The shipment from the PI did not, obviously, as it made it there just fine. On its face, the problem was the shipper and not Armscor or the State Department.

Does anyone else have anything solid on the issue? My own experience flying with firearms and ammunition is a little...different...than most folks, and so isn't relevant to the issue at hand

I think this is an excellent thread, by the way, and second the points about: RESULTS, an "expediter" (or team of same) on hand to help ALL Americans, not just the "Team" folks, and an on-site reporter.

I'd add to that list a review of the method used to assign slots to the various IPSC countries. My, perhaps flawed, understanding of the system is that each country is awarded slots based on the number of paid "mission count" competitors. However, that count is dramatically skewed by the cap placed on the required "mission count"...capped at 9k, if I understood correctly. I wouldn't mind paying a mission count on each and every active USPSA shooter to IPSC (perhaps to buy "loaner" washcloths ) if the slots were based off the number of paid shooters. In other words, the "cap" seems like it was voted into the IPSC rules in an attempt to keep the number of WS/US competitors artificially low by underreporting US members to IPSC. This cuts down on dues per member paid to IPSC, depriving them of always-needed funding, as well as cutting down the number of WS slots for US members of IPSC. Or perhaps I misunderstood Vince when he tried to explain it to me (although he used small words and lots of cookies).

Alex

[blackdragon]

We ( Armscor) Paid a 50% tax on the ammo, That was shipped from the Philippines, That I gave away at the WS. Martin gave me instuctions " to do what it takes to make it happen". I feel that we did!

Ivan

[BritinUSA]

Thanks for the post, Ivan.

I don't think anyone is blaming Armscor for the ammo problem, I'm not at least and I hope my posts did not give an opposite impression.

There are so many problems facing us now with regards to getting large quantities of ammo moved around to wherever the World Shoot is at. My goal with this forum entry is to try to get something arranged much sooner.

Delays with the allocation of slots for the World Shoot has a domino-effect on everything else. There were concerns about permits for the guns, the ammo problems of course. People hunting around for the last hotel rooms etc.. I think that if the organisers of the next WS can figure who gets a slot before the end of the previous year then that gives us a clear 6 months or so to get ammo/hotels/permits sorted out.

There are always delays and unforeseen problems with something like this but time is something that can alleviate almost all of them. There was so little time to get everything arranged that problems are almost inevitable.

For the next WS we should strive to get the ammo to the location at least 2 full months before the match, that way if we see problems then we have some wiggle room.

I admire Armscor for even attempting to do something this difficult with so many variables at play. I am certain that next time everything will go smoother. Athough I did not attend this WS (I've done 3 in the past), I am still appreciative of everything you guys tried to do and the willingness to inform those shooters personally of the problems shows a high degree of integrity.

Thanks for supporting the sport.

[blackdragon]

BritinUSA

I appreciate your thoughts, We are in negotiatons with IPSC to provide ammo for the world shoot in Indonesia. If we do this it will be a different story, As we have a track record there. We are one of the only companies that can do this.

Ivan

[ong45]

If you consider total money spent, armscor should be the match sponsor of WS XlV

James

[blackdragon]

I have been advised today, We spent $18,000.00. For the Air shipment for The US shooters Ammo from LAX to Miami alone.

Ivan

[BritinUSA]

I have been advised today, We spent $18,000.00. For the Air shipment for The US shooters Ammo  from LAX to Miami alone.

Ivan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[blackdragon]

We were one of the match sponsors at the WS. You wouldn't know it! I think there are some people that think that we were " less than honorable in our endevour" We ( In my humble opinon) Did every thing that we could under the circumstances.

Ivan

And YES That $$$$ is just the tip of the iceburg!!!!!

Ivan

[GuildSF4]

We were one of the match sponsors at the WS. You wouldn't know it! I think there are some people that think that we were " less than honorable in our endevour" We ( In my humble opinon) Did every thing that we could under the circumstances.

Ivan

And YES That $$$$ is just the tip of the iceburg!!!!!

Ivan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ivan, I wasn't there however from what I have heard you and Armscor we extremely honorable. You went above and beyond what was requested or required of you. Hats off to you guys.

[shred]

I was there.. Ivan kicked assets all over town trying to get the ammo there, ran out his cell-phone and took calls at his room at all hours. He was supposed to shoot on our squad but bailed to try and get the goat-rope under control.

[Genghis]

I believe IPSC is responsible for making arrangements so that the competitors can bring their guns and ammo to the match without unnecessary problems. Putting this responsibility on the competitors is an unreasonable distraction. They should have to arrange for transportation, but they should not have to mess with the legal issues and customs procedures.

In the future IPSC should require everyone who bids to host a WS to specifically address 1) What shooters will need to do to get their guns and ammo into the country, and 2) What the bidding organization will do to ease the process.

If the bidder and host country really want to hold this event, they should do their part and remove all unnecessary barriers so it can happen. If not, then the event should be held somewhere else.

[Nemo]

Although I wasn't there and don't think I'll make Bali either, from Erik's post I would say that there's also need for a Transortation Coordinator. Maybe the Team Manager could also take care of this. It may be cheaper to rent a bus or two to make rounds to transport the US contingent to and from the range.

My $0.02

[shred]

I was about to mention this. We could really use a real team manager-- and not only for the "Team" members. Somebody that coordinates with everybody going long before they go, can get there early, be there for shooters when they arrive, coordinate schedules, slots, hotels, proceedures, ammo, equipment, language barriers and so on. It can be a paid or subsidized position, like the team members since that's probably what it will take.

MV and co did an OK job this time around, but clearly they have lots of other priorities to work on. Priority #1 with the manager should be the US shooters and nothing else.

[TRNinTX]

I was about to mention this.  We could really use a real team manager-- and not only for the "Team" members.  Somebody that coordinates with everybody going long before they go, can get there early, be there for shooters when they arrive, coordinate schedules, slots, hotels, proceedures, ammo, equipment, language barriers and so on.  It can be a paid or subsidized position, like the team members since that's probably what it will take.

MV and co did an OK job this time around, but clearly they have lots of other priorities to work on.  Priority #1 with the manager should be the US shooters and nothing else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shred,

I agree. The lack of info filtering down was frustrating. Fortunately our hotel, HOJO, put notes under the doors of all competitors with bus schedules, etc. They also started the breakfast an hour earlier each morning to accomodate shooters and ROs.

I talked with Vince Pinto at length about the info problem and he said it was not just the US "managers" not getting info, but the info was not coming from higher up with very much regularity. For instance, we did not know you needed tickets to get into the Closing Ceremonies until the shootoff on Sunday morning. The "team members" all had tickets but I don't know how many others did.

Slots should be distributed earlier if possible and we should at least receive some kind of info packet prior to leaving the US. US should negotiate a "block" of rooms with one of the hotels, we are by far the largest contingent. I could go on, but most of the points have been touched on.

[lynn jones]

I was about to mention this.  We could really use a real team manager-- and not only for the "Team" members.  Somebody that coordinates with everybody going long before they go, can get there early, be there for shooters when they arrive, coordinate schedules, slots, hotels, proceedures, ammo, equipment, language barriers and so on.  It can be a paid or subsidized position, like the team members since that's probably what it will take.

MV and co did an OK job this time around, but clearly they have lots of other priorities to work on.  Priority #1 with the manager should be the US shooters and nothing else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there was 105 competitors from the USA. i think it would take more tha one manger.

lynn

[BSmith]

This was my first world shoot and international match and I definitely intend to shoot more. Armscor is to be commended for all of their efforts. I used my ammo until it ran out and then Armscor provided ammo for the rest of the match. The only problem is that my gun (open .38 super) doesn't like Armscor ammo and shot a 20" group at 20 yards with it. It was great to be able to finish the match but I know my scores didn't reflect my abilities.

In order to legally carry enough ammo to shoot the entire match you must have a non shooting companion to travel with you. The shooters I know that brought enough ammo to shoot the entire match (800 rounds +/-) admitedly busted all of the TSA and airline rules and gambled that they were not going to get caught. If you are unlucky, then enough of your ammo gets taken so that your are stuck with not enough to shoot the match without bumming ammo from friends and shooting ammo unsuitable for your gun. For a serious competitor this takes you out of contention for your class.

I've shot all over the US and I have never had the lack of information problem posed by the world shoot. From the beginning of the process to the very end most information was furnished at the last minute and was often incomplete.

For example, at the Hilton, the schedule for the Bus to the range was posted AFTER the bus had already left. There was no printed who, what, when, where, and how schedule of events furnished by the match administrators. The opening ceremony location was a mystery up until the last minute. There was no central headquarters at the range to ask simple questions. The entire process could have used some basic journalism help.

The match itself and the RO's ran very, very smooth stages.

If USPSA wants US shooters to be competitve in all classes and categories we all collectively have to figure out an ammunition solution and PUBLISH THIS INFORMATION.

Best regards, Brian Smith

[lynn jones]

hey brian,

welcome to the forums.

i'm glad you had a good time. the results showed you didn't too badly.

lynn

[Jasonub]

or shoot in the phils again maybe boracay or palawan? that way ammo is always available