"prepping" Or "staging" Da Trigger

[Leozinho]

Hi fellas,

I'm new to shooting competition, and have just one IDPA match under my belt.

I'm shooting a Beretta Brigadier 9mm. I'm not interested in going to another gun, as I'm military and this is my duty gun, so to speak.

I'm working get that first shot of quicker, and I vaguely know that I should prep the trigger as I extend my arms and acquire the front sight. I've tried searching this forum for related thread but have come up empty (maybe no suprise since DA/SA guns seem to be a very small minorty here.) Or maybe I'm using the wrong search terms?

Anyone have any links to good articles or threads covering this, or maybe you would even write a basic explanation of it here.

Thanks.

[DougCarden]

Basically as soon as you have the gun straight towards the target you start the trigger pull, so it is in motion while you are in motion. After you work on it in dryfire you should be able to be dropping the hammer when you are on target. It does take some effort to get there. The best info I can think of his to watch Jerry Miculek's fast DA shooting video. He discusses and demonstrates it in the video. Same with Revo or DA auto. It works well with my Sig 229dak I have at work.(carried a 92f for 13years as well....) Good luck, Doug

[Ben Stoeger]

I have been shooting a Beretta as well for awhile now. I did play around with conciously trying to prep the trigger for awhile, but I couldn't ever get it to work the way I wanted. Sometimes I would end up "Habit" shooting. By that I mean I was commited to firing at a certain time regardless of what I saw of my sights. In the end, I just shoot with the intention of hitting the target as fast as I can. I think that I subconciously prep the trigger, but its not something that I can THINK through. I can't make it happen. But with practice, it sort of does on its own.

Later,

Ben

[LPatterson]

In competition ONLY with the Beretta it is possible to prep the trigger by starting the trigger squeeze when the weak hand grips the gun. Then as the arms are extended into the shooting position the squeeze is continued and the gun fires when the sights see the target. To see it work in dryfire practice start in the high ready position, start the trigger squeeze and continue as the arms are extended with practice you can make the trigger break as soon as the sights are aligned on target. Since the Beretta is a true double action it is possible to do lots of practice in a short time.

It is even easier if you change the mainspring to a 15# 1911 Government model main spring and grind the first spring on each end so it is flat. It should still ignite WWB and handloads if the primer is seated properly. Use of a different spring allows you to return to normal if the experiment doesn't work.

[Leozinho]

Thanks for the replies. I've already changed the spring to the Wolf 16#, and I'm debating whether to try to give the trigger a light polish to lighten it a bit. (Berettaforum guys seem to think it's rather easy.)

And thanks for pointing out that this is a competition only technique. I should have mentioned that.

[Leozinho]

I found this article by E Langdon called "Fear Not the Double Action Shot." It's a good explanation.

http://www.craigcentral.com/fearnot.htm

[Paladin]

shoot a Beretta too.. I just roll that trigger, I never prep it..EL's article is good though..

[cking]

Cut off the stupid hammer drop lever then you can carry it locked and cocked. So it will be just like 1911 except the safety is in wrong place. Have somebody drill trigger for overtravel screw and it actually will become a fairly competitive gun.

[Ben Stoeger]

... it actually will become a fairly competitive gun.

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[Matt Cheely]

... it actually will become a fairly competitive gun.

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Is that legal for production? Never heard of anyone doing that before. And i hate taking off the safety on the draw with a beretta. Wayyyy up there.

[BerettaRacer]

Cut off the stupid hammer drop lever then you can carry it locked and cocked. So it will be just like 1911 except the safety is in wrong place. Have somebody drill trigger for overtravel screw and it actually will become a fairly competitive gun.

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Why would I want to ruin a safe, great shooting D/A carry gun, by turning it into some antique design gun that you have to carry with the hammer cocked?

PS Thats a good write up by Ernest on the D/A pull, and he's one of the best.

Edited September 30, 2005 by BerettaRacer

[benos]

I'm not saying this will work for you and your Beretta... A coon's age ago, when training the International Rapid Fire for the '85 Bianchi Cup (the one year they shot it - 5 Bianchi targets at 25 yds, one shot each, repeated 6 times with 3 different time limits, the fast string being 4 seconds. Tough stuff BTW.), I discovered, much to my surprise, that I shot the first shot (at 25 yards) faster and more accurately if I waited till the I was in my final index position before I even started pulling the trigger. At the time, I was shocked by the results. But over and over it was true.

Thinking about it just now, I remembered why I even tried it in the first place. My first shot on that stage was always the worst. If I ever dropped any points on any of the strings, it was always on the first shot. I thought about it and realized that once I established the pull's rhythm, for the second and successive shots, those targets always had better hits. So I remember thinking - what the heck - it's only practice - I'm gonna pull with the same rhythm (speed) on the first shot as I do for all the rest. The very first run felt easier. All the shots were great - and the first shot was dead nuts center. And the overall time was faster! That was the last thing I was expecting. The next day - same thing. It wasn't a "trick." So from then on - I never moved the trigger on a da revolver until the gun was in position.

Of course I analyzed the crap out of it, and here's what I came up with. The first shot was always worse (with the "start pulling before you get there" technique) because I never established any consistency in the trigger pull's speed. Starting the pull at some sort of arbitrary mid-point of the draw stroke - when the gun hit the shooting position - just exactly where the trigger "was" was always a bit of a mystery. Then I'm trying to aim while wrestling with the trigger, and wanko, I'd jerk the shot a tad. Too much un-deliberate, vague movement going on and nothing comes out right. But when I waited to begin pulling the trigger until the gun was aligned at the target (roughed out sight alignment), then I'd roll the trigger straight on through without any hesitation. That was key. The first shot would release with the same feeling as the next four. Doing one thing at a time the same way each time, and finishing each "one thing" before starting the next thing, was a good thing.

As the years have went by, the depth of that principle keeps sinking deeper.

Like I said, it may not work for you and the Beretta. Especially since the first and second trigger pulls on the Beretta are different lengths! But us ol' timers like telling stores.

But the principle behind it might bear some experimentation though. Say for example you "pick" several typical "first shot difficulty factors": The A box at 7, 10, 15, 20, and 25 yds. Then master and remember a "first shot rhythm for each one." I don't know...

be

[TCK]

I shoot a Sig 229 with a SA/DA action and by lightening the main spring and polishing your inner workings, you can drasticaly improve the action. Dry fire practice LOTS and before long, you wont even know its a DA first shot. I never stage the trigger, I just pull straight through when my sights are on target.

Good luck

[trevoro]

I shoot a Elite 2 in production, but I've never worried about prepping the trigger. While it is really intersting to talk about, prepping or not prepping is only going to affect you time by .014 seconds. How long does it really take to pull the trigger through an extra fraction of an inch?

Spend your time thinking about transitions, cadence, reloads and movement and you will see bigger improvements in your shooting. That being said, I do prep the trigger as I'm punching the gun straight towards the target.

For what it's worth.

Trevor

[QQQQ]

and it actually will become a fairly competitive gun.

Huh? judging from the way Dave Olhasso and even Gordon Carrol from TX and Ernest(before Smith)....shoot them....I think the Beretta is fairly competitive gun.