Question About Setting Up An Autoloader

[686+]

I would like to set up an autoloader shotgun for practical events and here is the things I want it to have: 8+1 capacity, gas operated, barrel to more or less match mag tube in lenght, rifle or ghost sights, popular platform with lots of parts. Would like to put this together myself as time allows, (I like to smith for fun).

Couple of questions for you:

1. If I go with a Remington is the 11-87 or 1100 a better choice and why?

2. Is a 16 Ga (11-42) worth the effort or should I just go with a 12 Ga? Are 16 Ga part available?

3. Which book by Pat Sweeney is everyone talking about?

4. Is it worth it to start with just a reciever minus the barrel and furniture and get the barrel and stocks I want or should I look and spend more for a more or less what I want setup? What would that gun be and what barrel length? (found some recievers with the guts in for ~100 dollars, worth it)

5. What gun are you suggesting?

6. for 8+1 capacity what is the shortest barrel lenght that will look about the same length as the mag tube?

7. How much less handy is a 21" vs a 18.5" tube?

Thanks and sorry for the question barrage.

BTW. I am starting to really love 3gun, so this would be the primary use for this gun.

Thanks.

[davidwiz]

2. Is a 16 Ga (11-42) worth the effort or should I just go with a 12 Ga?  Are 16 Ga part available?

I think you'd find some difficulty in locating 16ga ammo. 12 ga is Major and 20ga is Minor. As 16ga is inbetween, I'm not sure if you'd be shooting Major or Minor. See Appendix D of the Shotgun Rules.

You might want to search the forums, as a lot of your questions have been answered.

[Larry White]

I really dont know enough about remingtions to tell you which to choose. But forget the 16 ga, its not the parts(but they probaly arnt there) its the selection of ammo, all the good stuff is for 12 ga. I cant see a handling advantage for the 18 over a 22, go with a 22 with a vent rib and just a fiber optic front sight. I do have a very small rear sight dovetailed into the rib for long range slugs but the ring or rifle sights are just in the way for 90% of the shots. A full length 23 in tube may look a little funkey but is very handy, some shells are a little longer than others and a 8 rd tube that wont hold but 7 is a pita but a full 23 in 9 rd tube will hold 8 of anything. The way a lot of matches are preloading shotguns now it sure is nice to shove nine in the tube, step into the starting position, rack the bolt and nod ready, a lot less fumble factor. Shotguns are where simpler is better really shines.-----Larry

[nm3gnr]

I would like to set up an autoloader shotgun for practical events and here is the things I want it to have: 8+1 capacity, gas operated, barrel to more or less match mag tube in lenght, rifle or ghost sights, popular platform with lots of parts.  Would like to put this together myself as time allows, (I like to smith for fun).

Couple of questions for you:

1. If I go with a Remington is the 11-87 or 1100 a better choice and why?

2. Is a 16 Ga (11-42) worth the effort or should I just go with a 12 Ga?  Are 16 Ga part available?

3.  Which book by  Pat Sweeney is everyone talking about?

4. Is it worth it to start with just a reciever minus the barrel and furniture and get the barrel and stocks I want or should I look and spend more for a more or less what I want setup?  What would that gun be and what barrel length?  (found some recievers with the guts in for ~100 dollars, worth it)

5. What gun are you suggesting? 

6.  for 8+1 capacity what is the shortest barrel lenght that will look about the same length as the mag tube? 

7.  How much less handy is a 21" vs a 18.5" tube?

Thanks and sorry for the question barrage.

BTW. I am starting to really love 3gun, so this would be the primary use for this gun.

Thanks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Building one is good. Watch out for old actions made by remmy that will not cycle a round into the chamber once the bolt is pulled back from an empty chamber and a full tube, ( there is probably a fix for this that I don't know about ).

If you want the latest and fastest just save a while and by a WIN SX2 and you will not be dissappointed. It is setup and ready to run except for side saddle carriers. If you start to build one you will eventually spend $ 900.00 anyway.

[sargenv]

12 ga is Major and 20ga is Minor

Actually, the power factor floor for shotgun division is 520. This is roughly an ounce of shot at 1188 fps. The 20 gauge is capable of making this power floor. If you were utilizing a 7/8 ounce load, it would have to have a velocity of 1361 fps, not really attainable by the 20, but more than attainable by the 16 or 12.

12's are more common and I'd reccomend the 12 over any other gauge just due to the large amount of ammo available for it, and the ease of finding parts for it. However, if you are hell bent on the smaller gauges, or you have a reason for shooting a lighter gun, it can be done, it would just be more difficult to set up.

Vince

[Larry White]

Vince is correct, 20 ga is minium, not minor. 1oz of 6s out of a 20ga with a mod choke is a popper killing sob(long shot string). I shot one for a few years but the ammo choices is a downer.------Larry

[sargenv]

I debated turning my 20 gauge 870 wingmaster into an inexpensive 3 gun platform but was faced with no real extended mag tube readily available. I have one of the older 20 gauge wingmasters built offf the 12 gauge frame, but it's still a 20. I had a hard enough time finding a 26" barrel that fit it as it was out of production. Seeing as though this was for an auto loader, I also thought about buying a 20 gauge gold (note staying on topic ) but it was too expensive.

Vince

[686+]

Not really serious about the 16ga. It's only that everyone seems to run reduced loads in a 12.... Since I don't have time reload for what I already got I will stick with a 12.

nm3gnr:

I figure I will spend the money either way, but if I build it myself I will get a chance to learn something along the way.

Anyone have a chance to deal with an ALS 2100???

[Larry White]

I've been shooting a 2100 for three years, probaly 3500?4000 rds, no problems.-----Larry

[stingerjg]

I debated turning my 20 gauge 870 wingmaster into an inexpensive 3 gun platform but was faced with no real extended mag tube readily available.

Vince

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CHOATE makes mag tubes for 20ga Remmy's.

I would still reccomend a 1100 in 12ga as a starting platform. Go w/ somthing that has the 26" barrel and choke tubes. You can always shorten the barrel if you need to.

Id prob go for somthing like a second hand 1100 and then add a synthetic stock, mag tube, and maybe a rebuild kit. The price would be minimal. Shoot that till you decide what mods you desire.

[sargenv]

I debated turning my 20 gauge 870 wingmaster into an inexpensive 3 gun platform but was faced with no real extended mag tube readily available.

Vince

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CHOATE makes mag tubes for 20ga Remmy's.

I would still reccomend a 1100 in 12ga as a starting platform. Go w/ somthing that has the 26" barrel and choke tubes. You can always shorten the barrel if you need to.

Id prob go for somthing like a second hand 1100 and then add a synthetic stock, mag tube, and maybe a rebuild kit. The price would be minimal. Shoot that till you decide what mods you desire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question is, is this for the modern Remmies or the ancient ones (like I have). The barrels and the whole mechanism is different for the newer ones rather than the old ones (we're talking 1980 era). They build them lighter than the ones manufactured way back when. It's probably a good thing I kept it stock:)

Vince

[Overkill]

Since most of the SG targest are steel or clays, is shooting 20ga minor really that much of a difference? Assuming you get a decent number of A's on the 8 or 12 SG Paper targes in the match how many points are you really dropping.

[MP5_guy]

Couple of questions for you:

1. If I go with a Remington is the 11-87 or 1100 a better choice and why?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would look for an 11-87. Remington has improved the gas system and it is more tolerant of a wide range of shotshells. That is, it will shoot light loads and field loads well. My wife has an 11-87 that just keeps on going. My 1100 is picky about what I feed it. It's not really a big deal unless you want to get really cheap and start using some no-name shotshell.

[paraman1]

Here is the deal . Go find a used Rem 1100 at the pawn shop or local gun store (I have paid as little as 150 and as much as 225) for your platform . 20 Gauge is nice but you have to jump through some hoops to keep it legal so I would advise that you go with 12 Gauge . You can order a extended mag tube and an easyloader from Brownells and a 3-gun gear side saddle from 3 gun gear . If your barrel is over 22 inches find a gunsmith locally who can shorten it and rethread it for removable chokes (anywhere from 55-100 bucks) . I recommend having it cut to 22 inches as a few matches (non USPSA) will not allow lengths of over that and just modifying the rib . If no smith is available you can order a replacement 21 inch deer slug barrel with removable chokes for something on the order of 160 bucks (or watch Ebay or Gunbroker for a used one) which will net you a set of iron sights for slug use as well . A single bead sight can work fine but a double bead sight or a set of adjustable irons is nice on slug stages .

Oversized bolt handles and safeties are not mandatory to be competitive but if you want to ad them its cheap enough to do . I generally dont run them but its personal preference and I have been shooting an 1100 while hunting Upland birds for quite a few years and I like it sans oversized safeties and bolts .

You should be able to build a very serviceable shotgun for 450-500 bucks and if you decide you want to get rid of it you can get most if not all of your money back . I shot my home built 1100 against Jim Wall and David Neth in its first match ever a couple years ago and they were the only ones I came in behind . I am guessing that my skill had a lot more to do with it than their shotguns vs. mine .

One last small investment you should make is to buy 20 O-rings from Eric Wesselman so that you can replace them at the drop of a hat .

[George]

1100 if the price is real cheap, otherwise go with an 11-87 for the improved gas system. Vent rib barrel is cool. You are gonna want an Easyloader gate installed. Choate Mfg is the place for mag tubes. You may not want an ammo sidesaddle, but you are definitely gonna want a 3gun gear Slidelok 2Pack to hold a pair of spare shells right in front of the loading gate/ejection port.

Erik's O-rings coupled with a good synthetic detergent motor oil liberally slopped in the gas system and trigger group will keep it running strong.

--

Regards,

[wsimpso1]

+1 on a cheap used M1100, extended mag, EZ Loader and rifle sights.

Someone mentioned being able to rack to gun manually and have it close automatically. That is a feature of of the 3" Shell Carrier. Many used M1100's don't have it, but it is not a pricey addition. Pat Sweeney covers it, the EZ loader, sights, and other stuff in his book (search borders.com, amazon.com, etc under his name, and you will find the book). Brownells has all of these parts...

After that, you might want to get the loading path slicked up a bit, but the M1100 is one of the best places to start.

Billski

[Matt Cheely]

+1 on a cheap used M1100, extended mag, EZ Loader and rifle sights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only problem with this is I am having a hard time finding cheap used 11-87's or 1100's. Can get a basic 11-87 for $500, and the cheapest I've seen used is $450.