Learning All Over Again...after A Layoff

[dirtypool40]

Eyes seem to be on the upswing, keep your fingers crossed for me guys.

I was disgusted by my performance in La Paz, and decided I am an iron site shooter so I need to get back to it. Anyway, I can see sorta see a front site again so after four months, I ventured back out to practice. No dry fire yet, just went out to play live fire.

I am noticing the things I took so long to learn are things I am going to have to get all over again.

Draw speed was fine, hovering around 1.0 at 10y, although points were admittedly sloppy. Reloads need a little polish, but not bad considering.

The things I did notice are that my grip is horrible (thumbs pinching slide) and my focal shift is lazy and not at all where I had it.

I shot on "the partials" and an open target VP for about 200 rounds, and I really had to remind myself to shift to a heavier focus on the sights, and pick a single spot for a bullet instead of the old lazy "area hosing".

My movement is not precise or explosive (YET!!) but I am going to rebuild it the way I want it. I think after almost six months I have a better idea of what TJ was trying to pound into my head, and I'm working on it. Flow, and sneak....

I guess I wanted to hear what else you guys have noticed after a long lay off and how did you shorten the re-learning curve?

[Loves2Shoot]

The only way I know to get the rust off is hours of practice, the sooner you put the hours in, the quicker your recovery

Also be patient and see what you need to see, trying to be fast, well we know where that leads...

[GuildSF4]

Other than dry-fire and practice, I don't know. I'm still recovering from a several year lay-off...

(Glad to hear your eyes are doing better. )

[XRe]

Other than dry-fire and practice, I don't know. I'm still recovering from a several year lay-off...

(Glad to hear your eyes are doing better.    )

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in the same boat... I need live fire practice - it's so obvious it's not funny. Lots of dry fire isn't going to hurt, either. I've noticed my eyes are real slow, so I've been doing "focus drills" - as I'm driving around, or sitting at the desk or whatever, I'll periodically just shift and focus as quickly as I can on different things in my surroundings (obviously, carefully, while behind the wheel ).

Basically, I need work on *everything*!!!

[dirtypool40]

I practiced a little last week, after starting this thread.

I have to say that going from (if I dare sound... uppity) near GM, down to low "B" and back in pursuit of the "G card" is enlightening. I am seeing and re-learning things I never saw before, or never knew I was seeing, and was just taking for granted as things slowly evolved.

Now I know the speed and accuracy I should be doing things in, or rather want to do them in, and when things don't go like that I am seeing a world of complexities I never noticed before. Such as...

Being calm and ready to explode (smoothly) at the beep is something you learn over time, but when it's not there, you notice it, and your runs look sloppy, and lethargic, like you are shooting the course cold, without a good understanding of how to dissect it. I kinda wandered through courses all day last weekend, sleep walking is more like it.

Timing to YOUR gun, load and grip, take time to learn, and less time to lose. I shot a local match the other day, and I had decent transitions, and a good amount of first shot A's, but the second shots were sloppy all day, including some uncalled misses as everything is not all "synched" up yet.

Eye speed and quick, precise focal changed, timed to let the shot break as soon as possible may be one of the big intangibles for top shooters. KNOW the shot is thee, but take no extra time. This will be a tough one to get back.

Other than that, I can still see some distortion, but I really think my eyes are on the mend, maybe 20/40 or so now. I am coming home in a month. Big changes are afoot, excited about getting back into shooting in the Gunshine state.

[EricW]

I am coming home in a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget to bring the gf along. She'll be tough to replace, even in FL.

[dirtypool40]

Don't forget to bring the gf along. She'll be tough to replace, even in FL. -EricW

keep it on the down low, that may be one of the big changes...

We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread about trying to get back up to speed....

[dirtypool40]

This thread isn't getting a whole lot of "play" so I will just use it as my own little training diary as I get back into the sport.

Eye speed, trigger control with visual patience, and smooth, confident movement seem to be the core difference between decent shooters and upper level folks. At least they do to me, as I sit here trying to figure out why this is all so hard.

Those are the things I had bits and pieces of, lost and am now working to get back.

I am hosting a big match next weekend. "Copa Gringo Segundo". I'm getting the Santa Cruz club affiliated with USPSA so we can turn in classifiers, and in fact this will be a combo WS tune up / special classifier.

I've loaded up some ammo and will try to get out two to three times a week over the next two weeks as that match approaches. I had two 100%'s and a 94% way back in December that never got posted, so I languish down at 87% with classifiers going back over three years.

Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Shot some VP drills yesterday, and some accuracy work. Maybe 100 rounds total. Draws are still a little sloppy, but reloads are coming along. Both are hovering around 1.10 at 10y.

I would like to get the "Draw test" up to at least a 5.0 hf (1A per sec) and then start working towards the .90 for an A.

Still working on "flow" movement. I think I understand it, even well enough to explain, but I don't have it incorporated enough that it happens like it should....yet.

[dirtypool40]

I did the draw test and came up with .98 average and 57 points. Not smoking, but it was there.

Shot some EL PREZ this past weekend on amoebas.

Had my fastest ever runs, and broke into the sub 4.0 for the first time ever.

Fastest run was a 3.53 with a .95 turn and draw and a .90 reload. Those are also the fastest T&D and reload times for me in this drill. Hits were....suspect.

On the up side I did have several clean runs, including a 4.13 down a bunch, and a 4.60 down two.

I am still shooting a very light gun and having trouble getting back into the timing. I was mostly shooting this drill flat out, to force some speed from my eyes. It seemed to work as 15y VP work afterwards was pretty good.

Still working on the movement. It tough, but I believe once I have it wired in it will be an advantage.

[benos]

Eye speed, trigger control with visual patience, and smooth, confident movement seem to be the core...

Well put!

Eye speed: Keep your eyes moving. Always be looking for something specific, but once you find it, find the next thing you need to see.

Visual patience: You must see what you need to see to be sure, otherwise you might as well go to Vegas, where they live on luck.

Smooth, confident movement: is the result of the elimination of doubt - from everything that you do.

be

[dirtypool40]

Thanks BENOS.

The more I re-learn, the more the stuff occurrs to me that I just blew past last time and took for granted.

It's taking too long to get back up to speed, I think "I need a montage' "

[j1b]

Several of us in the forums are going through this to various degrees.

I find it ironic that I am stuck on this "I ain't as good as I once was" theme. I am certain the possibility exists that I think I was a hell of a lot better than I actually was - there's something I need to come to terms with.

So for me dry fire was the key. Live fire has been important, but not critical. I don't live fire much due to time. I've found that when I go to a six stage match though, I shoot one stage and I'm generally a little conservative. Not intentionally, just making sure I hit the shots. The second stage I'm more comfortable and by the third stage I'm like "Oh yeah, I know how to do this stuff" As long as I hang on the first two stages I'm pretty solid through the rest. One match I was in a heat match with another good shooter and I found my ability to push and focus near the end was likely as good as it ever was. I knew I needed to hammer the last stage and was able to do so.

The comeback is probably more mental than anything for all of us. And one extreme positive for me is knowing what the wrong things to do are. So if I take a month or two off and I start dry firing and I'm doing something stupid in the draw or indexing wrong I don't have to "learn" how to do it - I just have to remember. That seems so much easier.

My comeback has been so much more focused on being a competitor and in my opinion that has yielded benefits. The AR State match was a solid match for me. The Old Fort Shoot Out started rough but I was able to smooth things out. The AR IDPA state match a year or two ago was my first major match in some time and it turned out to be one of the more solid matches I'd shot in all my career.

Granted I've had my fumbles - Area 4 last year was a disaster. But frankly, Area 4 enabled me to know what I needed to work on and I'm convinced I won't make the same mistakes consistently in a match again.

The come back can be the most rewarding component of a shooter's career. Learning and relearning. Not stuck in some "here's how I do it" routine. The chance for all of us getting back in the game to emerge from this experience better than when we left. How rewarding would that be!!!!!

[Flexmoney]

A nice thing about starting over is that we can allow ourselves to get a clear picture of the activity that we want to perform.

We aren't deluded by our current notions so much.

Once we can concieve the activity, we can let our bodies figure out how to perform.

[dirtypool40]

Thanks guys, good stuff.

In my case, I'm not sure if "comeback" qualifies, because I ain't been to the top yet. But picking up my progression to move forward from where I left off is too long a name, so I'll use comeback.

J1B you're right, sometimes a little layoff can be refreshing. I shot boring and smooth at the 04 FL state after about six weeks off. I was TDY down here, came home, the GS delivered the new gun Friday and Sat / Sun I shot the match. A little less aggressive and confident than I would have liked, but 2nd LIM and 1st "M" behind Shannon Smith is a good finish for me anyway.

It seems like a little layoff, where you remember you loved the sport and it's fun again is good for you. I'm talking about a real, longer layoff, where skills and focus really degrade. My eye problem forced a lay off of about five months. Sure I think and chat about shooting, but the skills degrade from lack of use for so long.

I've been getting out to practice a little lately, and been trying to force speed one time precision the next, sometimes within the same session.

I shot some flat out El Prez runs Saturday, including my fastest ever, and highest hf ever, and then backed up to 25y to shoot groups and partials. Trying to force eye speed and point focus / visual patience at different times.

My speed comes back to me quickly. Harnessing it and controlling it to get good results takes longer. I can dry fire a few times and my draws and reloads are pretty good. I need many sessions over several weeks of live fire to get accuracy, patience and timing back.

I'd really like to find a way to shorten that curve.

[j1b]

Yeah, I see your point.

Layoff is probably subjective - but the concept is probably similar.

So I went through a time when I hadn't shot (literally) for about 2 years. Coming back from that took some time just trying to remember what I was supposed to do. Just focused on the core fundamentals and for some reason once the foundation was solid then the rest started to come together pretty quickly.

Nowadays I am not really laying off or coming back. I haven't shot in months, but will on Sunday. We'll see how it goes - I'll probably dry fire for 30 minutes or so Saturday night and assuming that goes well I'll be ok. It's almost like I'm used to not shooting now which makes "not shooting" less of a factor when getting ready to go shoot. That's ass backwards I know, but its the only way I can explain it.

IPSC has become kind of a revival for me. I like that I don't do it as much as I used to but when I hear the buzzer in a match it all comes flooding back pretty quickly.

Arnt Myer was the king of this. He wouldn't shoot for months, come out, and kick the crap out of all of us. He just built a foundation and worked off of that for everything. That I know of he hasn't shot a match in years but would likely be a contender at the next nationals if he decided to shoot. Just one of those things.

J

[dirtypool40]

You're right, and there comes a point where your skill set becomes part of you.

I used to play pool pretty well, and i can walk in cold and still do a fair job of cutting up the table. that being said there's still a confidence and calmness that comes from knowing you put in hours of practice recently, and have really "polished the mirror".

[XRe]

I was thinking about this topic yesterday, while shooting my third match back from my layoff. I find it pretty interesting how my perspective on how well I'm shooting changes based on where my skill level is at. It *feels* like I'm shooting at the same level I remember A-class feeling like, but I turn in B-class scores. It also makes me wonder a little bit if the bar hasn't gotten a little higher in between....

Live fire practice would help me immensely. I've said that before, and it's still true. My recoil management feels pretty sorry, and my follow through isn't all that hot, either. I also need work on long range and prone stuff, on top of all the other issues (movement, reloads, etc). The videos AustinMike shot of me yesterday are, well, a little sad....

But.... I seem to incrementally be getting better. I shot one stage of five yesterday in what felt like a reasonable performance (and was worth 5th overall, only being beaten by 3 Open shooters, and a Limited GM). Every thing else was flat, for various reasons.

Sigh... frustrating to come off a layoff and realize that iron sights aren't as easy to shoot as a dot, and that I'm more than a little rusty. I'll take the improvement each time, though....

[Bryan W]

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you Dave (good post by the way). My layoff has been over 6 years (went back to school) and I shot the same match as you did yesterday. My first since late 1998. My first two stages were pretty rough but things seemed to smooth out some in the last 3 stages. I just felt lucky I didn't fall on my face after such a long break. But, I am back now, I've geared up and plan on shooting Production for a while. I did have the chance to shoot with shred and he's a class act plus a great shooter...

I have a lot to work on but I do have a training plan in place. I look forward to learning again. It's great to be back

[dirtypool40]

Yup, you guys know what I am talking about.

In my case my plan was to come down here for a year or two, and practice and shoot a LOT. My friends back home used to tease me saying I would become and "IPSC monk" with nothing else to do.

The truth of the matter is before the eye problem I got to practice a lot and improved quite a bit. But I have only shot five local matches this year.

So I am getting back into the swing of things, and shooting pretty good in practice. What I need is more match (and big match) experience and against tough shooters.

We shot "Copa Gringo Segund" this past weekend, sort of a two day WS tune up and cook out. and I put the whole thing together. It's always tough to run a match and shoot it, but I shot ok, in stretches. We shot 6 classifiers, and 8 field courses. I shot four GM scores on the classifiers and really puked on two. (Tanked reloads...yeah my specialty, right?) on Paper Poppers and CQ Stand.

The Santa Cruz club paper work for USPSA affiliation goes in the next week or so, so we'll see if I get bumped. If not I hope to make the "scarlet G" when I get home.

I guess the conclusion is that I have improved in skill level, now it's time to get match performance back up and beyond where it was.

[Flexmoney]

The past couple of years, I haven't shot matches over the winter (and didn't practice any to speak of either).

I've found that the lay-offs bring on the usual suspects...expectations and trying.

It's not all that different from when we used to get together each year to start playing some basketball. For a while, without any ongoing practice, my ball handling wasn't sub-conscious or sharp and my movement was behind the curve. Even though I could visualize the performance, the coordination and execution just wasn't up to speed yet.