Jeeper Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 This isnt about me but rather my fiance. Why does every guy think he knows more than every woman out at the range? My fiance is just learning how to shoot and has only shot a few matches. She is really coming along but like many new shooters she gets somewhat nervous when a stage starts. A few weeks ago we were out shooting Tuesday steel and she got to a stage with a plate rack. She missed one plates maybe 2 times and then the idiot RO starts yelling "left right, over" to her. Of course this even gets her more nervous and she continued to miss. I could tell that this nutsack trying to coach her was really making her nervous. A guy got up after her who was also very inexperienced with the same RO and missed like 10 times at the plates and the RO said nothing. Two weeks earlier than that the same thing happened where she had a jam. She was going through the procedure to clear it correctly and yet 3-4 guys from the crowd run up behind her and were all yelling different things to her to clear it. She didnt look back for help or ask. It was very obvious that she knew how to do it yet these morons had to help the ppor girl. The guy standing next to me even commented that they were interupting her. These bozos jus take it on themselves to help because women are obviously so incompetent in their minds that they couldnt do it without a big macho guy telling them how to. I know that I have heard from at least one woman on this board how every guy always gives them advice like they are idiots even though she is a better shooter than all of them. Now I go up and stand by the RO so that it is obvious that I am there to help her so no other guy will come up. The next time it happens out at Rio I think I am going to lose it. It is going to be "shut up and let her f*#king shoot". It is never the good shooters who are trying to give advice, they know better. It is the guys who arent that good but need to feel macho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisgahrifle Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Amen to the whole damn post! Seeing things like this happen to women at clubs she's visited is one reason she doesn't care for the sport much. She finally got a chance to see a few good, UNINTERRUPTED women shooters at a USPSA match a while back, and she's starting to come around. It makes you wonder how many women have been driven off from practical shooting because of some a**clown's need to exhibit to the world his cranial and testicular circumference by "helping the little lady shoot that big ol' thing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Amen.... make sure the jerks get their appropriate penalities for engaging in coaching That ought to shut them up... I've also had ROs try to tell me what to do at LAMR - I'm working through my routine, checking equipment, etc, and they start saying something to me about how it would be better for me to do something a certain way, or f**k with me about running a mag in and out twice, etc. I need a pithy comeback for those situations... I tend to let that crap get in my head, unfortunately.... People yelling at the top of their lungs in the nearby safe area in between strings does nothing to help out, either.... Note to self - remember manners while on the range at all times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralChang Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 People yelling at the top of their lungs in the nearby safe area in between strings does nothing to help out, either.... Note to self - remember manners while on the range at all times Amen brother. I was well on my way to a class win at a local club match and I experienced this very thing. I was shooting a stage (everything programmed perfectly) and it looked like it was going to be just what I needed to win my class when I heard someone yelling "stop" and "no". I paused for a second and the RO said nothing so I continued. At the time I heard the yelling was when I was suposed to do my reload but that went out the window. Needless to say, running my gun dry, a fumbled flat footed reload, and of course the pause in the stage, cost me the class win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Smith Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Ro's That Coach You While Shooting I recommend against shooting MGM if this drives you crazy. "shut up and let her f*#king shoot". I seem to remember yelling something like while shooting at the aforementioned match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Worst one I recall was the section championship a few years back when some RO deviates from the approved range commands & says - "if you understand the COF, load and make ready" - hey, that does not bug me & I understand its a courtesy. However, after the beep I had a mental lapse & fired the 1st half of the COF, started to unload & THEN recalled the mandatory reload & second 1/2 of the COF. A good 5 seconds passed before I realized my mistake, loaded back up & finished. Now here is what pissed me off: After I unload show clear & holster, the RO says in a very loud voice: "I said, IF YOU UNDERSTAND THE COURSE OF FIRE!!" What a prick. I know I screwed up. He knows it. Everyone watching knew it - and the RO has to make a smart ass comment to someone he does not know. I have since become an RO & I go out of my way to avoid embarrasing a shooter who makes a mistake (who among us does not make shooting mistakes?). No need to rub it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standles Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 All I can say is hold your and her cool. Continue to improve until you wax thier behinds. This will be easy since these type rarely do anything other than show up for a match. No dry fire no skills building nothing. Once that happens then gladly remember the axiom.... TURN AROUND IS FAIR PLAY...... My 16 YO daughter shoots with me and appreciated the help (still does if it is help)at first. When she learned and got to doing better the helpful shooters let her be but a couple of others kept on. One day at a practice range they completely fubar'd a steel stage with poppers at 15 and 20 yds. She stepped to the line passing them and commemented "If ya'll guys are having that much trouble I don't stand a chance". They responded "just do the best you can nobdy expects you to be perfect". She cleaned the stage STRONG HAND ONLY. As she walked off the line she said "I was mistaken, it wasn't that hard at all" as she rejoined the squad. A father has never been prouder than when I realized that my SmartA** ways have survived and been passed on to the next generationi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 All I can say is hold your and her cool. Continue to improve until you wax thier behinds. That is the funiest thing on this is that some of the people coaching are way worse than the shooters they are coaching. I can attest to another forum member here Sharyn(Sniper) getting coached all the time by men way worse than her. She is a damn good shooter and knows exactly what she did wrong when it happens. yet every time she makes a goof certain "all knowing" guys come over to tell her about it. I am a pretty good shooter and people dont mess with me, yet they will coach my fiance when I am standing right next to her even though I am far better than the clown doing the coaching. If I am not coaching her then do they just think I am being a prick? I just dont get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 The next time it happens out at Rio I think I am going to lose it. It is going to be "shut up and let her f*#king shoot". ---Jeeper I'm confused, why is it you need to speak for her? I assume she is an adult. Why would you swear in front of your fiance? It only shows your lack of respect for her? If your fiance needs your help with an RO or RO(s), I'd suggest you speak with them privately. Respectfully, jdkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisgahrifle Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 All I can say is hold your and her cool. Circle gets a square. I disagree. Remember the recent thread about the sport going back to high school? Well, all this is part of it. I say give as good as you get. I knew of a fella at a club I used to shoot at that got ribbed incessantly. Yeah, every once and a while he'd screw a stage. Sometimes doing silly, silly things. And there was a group of shooters, many of which were regular ROs, that never let him forget it. And it wasn't friendly, either. Most of these guys never had a kind word to say to this poor kid. So once he started shooting with myself and a few of my cronies, we started to take up for him. Eventually he learned to start cracking back on his own- hard. Just because someone has a bit of authority doesn't give them license. I recall that whenever my stepfather was doing something and someone was trying to tell him how, he'd look at them and say, "'Scuse me, I'm the one f&*king this goat, now if you'll be so kind as to stand over there and hold on to the tail we'll get along just fine." Worked every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 21, 2005 Share Posted July 21, 2005 Worst one I recall was the section championship a few years back when some RO deviates from the approved range commands & says - "if you understand the COF, load and make ready" - hey, that does not bug me & I understand its a courtesy. I've seen this happens at Area matches, with the MD and RM knowning that it is going on, but not doing anything about it. It's really not good, especially if there is a non-US shooter who might not understand English really well, but knows what the range commands are, and it could really mess them up if they are deviated from. As for the whole RO coaching/interferring, it seems to be just a sub-set of shooters who think that they know it all and/or that everyone wants to hear their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted July 21, 2005 Author Share Posted July 21, 2005 Why would you swear in front of your fiance?It only shows your lack of respect for her? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How is swearing showing a lack of respect? Swearing to me is simply a way of getting a point across strongly. Cuss words are the top of the evolutionary ladder in the world of grammar. What other words can be used as basically every part of speech? She can take care of herself but didnt know what to do since she is new to the sport. She didnt know if they were supposed to do that or not. I on the other hand know that they are not only breaking the rules but hurting a shooters score and concentration. It's really not good, especially if there is a non-US shooter who might not understand English really well, but knows what the range commands are, and it could really mess them up if they are deviated from. I couldnt agree more. I wear 2 set of plugs sometimes and all I want to hear is "load and make ready". Keep your other brilliant commands to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hmmm, two sides to this one. Question for Jeeper: Say I'm roing you or you lovely friend and I see that you neglected to "load" at the LAMR command. Say there is no mag in you gun and there should be, would you consider it insulting for the RO to suggest that you might want to consider stickin' a mag in your gun? Or would that be considered being too nosey? The way I tend to see it is that some people get a bit worked up before they start a stage and especially newer shooters might appreciate an occasional bit of "help" from an RO. Now telling any shooter "how to shoot" any stage isn't right in my book as an RO, but there are some safety issues and other stuff that could make the shooting experience better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hmmm, two sides to this one.Question for Jeeper: Say I'm roing you or you lovely friend and I see that you neglected to "load" at the LAMR command. Say there is no mag in you gun and there should be, would you consider it insulting for the RO to suggest that you might want to consider stickin' a mag in your gun? Or would that be considered being too nosey? The way I tend to see it is that some people get a bit worked up before they start a stage and especially newer shooters might appreciate an occasional bit of "help" from an RO. Now telling any shooter "how to shoot" any stage isn't right in my book as an RO, but there are some safety issues and other stuff that could make the shooting experience better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think there is definately a line. I will give the RO a lot more room to play with that line than the crowd. If someone is having a problem that they look like they cant handle then the RO might have room to jump in. Safety is a no brainer since that is their job. As far as loading the gun. I think that is also way different since the ourse of fire hasnt started. If an experienced person just forgot and did some sort of prep I would probably give the "Are you ready" and let them figure it out. RO's should never call misses or tell you that you forgot targets or say anything non-safety related unless the shooter somehow asks for it. Even then they should realy keep their mouths shut unless it is a safety problem. That being said I do see how an helpful RO can assist a new shooter through a course. The RO should make sure that they want the advice though first. As far as the crowd goes: They get to say nothing. Running up to someone to give your 2 cents is totally inappropriate. The RO is there for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 why is it you need to speak for her? Maybe she liked the attention but someone else didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I once had an SO at an IDPA match tell me that I would "get killed on the street if I did that". I had turned towards my gunside for a turning draw in the classifier. Pissed me right off. I vowed that nobody would ever hear anything like that at our club, and we make sure all our SO's know that they are not to dispense self-defense advice on the range during a match, no matter what their credentials. It's insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted July 22, 2005 Author Share Posted July 22, 2005 why is it you need to speak for her? Maybe she liked the attention but someone else didn't <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Those who can't do, teach(or so they think) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heath Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I once had an SO at an IDPA match tell me that I would "get killed on the street if I did that".I had turned towards my gunside for a turning draw in the classifier. I met a guy at a match the other day that told me the same thing - that he'd never turn towards his gun side on a draw. I was a bit baffled by that remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 He's right about the tactic, and I wouldn't have a problem with someone saying that they wouldn't turn that direction - if you turn to your gunside, you're exposing your gun to your attacker - which is generally a bad thing. The problem is that a match is not the time or place to criticize someone - especially someone who is on the line and hasn't asked for self-defense advice. If I want self-defense advice or training, I'll seek it out from someone I wish to learn from. For all I know I have more defensive pistol instructor creds than the guy who gave me grief about the draw. On the range, I was confident that the 3 cardboard targets would have a hard time getting my gun out of the holster, what with no arms and everything, so I had assumed I was safe and chose the faster draw... Maybe I'm overly sensitive on this, I just look at offering up unsolicited self-defense advice to be like offering someone unsolicited parenting advice. It's a big, serious deal and if you haven't been asked to help, keep your trap shut. On top of that, you are assuming that you are talking to someone who is looking for your help. I think it's insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Hmmm, two sides to this one.Question for Jeeper: Say I'm roing you or you lovely friend and I see that you neglected to "load" at the LAMR command. Say there is no mag in you gun and there should be, would you consider it insulting for the RO to suggest that you might want to consider stickin' a mag in your gun? Or would that be considered being too nosey? The way I tend to see it is that some people get a bit worked up before they start a stage and especially newer shooters might appreciate an occasional bit of "help" from an RO. Now telling any shooter "how to shoot" any stage isn't right in my book as an RO, but there are some safety issues and other stuff that could make the shooting experience better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> L2S I know the vein of this post is about a new/female shooter but telling a shooter they might want to put a mag in the gun is still coaching. If I put a mag in the gun but didn't load the chamber would you tell me about that as well. In these posts we need to remember that they are also being read by inexperienced shooters who don't fully understand the role of the RO. I would like to present my idea. It is to run every shooter safely without influencing the outcome by anything I might say. I will follow the RO creed and use only approved range commands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 Great point LeRoy. I should have prefaced my point by say at a local match. I know there are many who will give me grief about that, but I feel the benefits of helping "new" shooters enjoy the sport and have their successes far outweighs the negatives. Disclaimer for new shooters: At major match, be prepared to take your lumps. If you come to Bend to shoot a local match our RO's will make sure you are safe, score your targets fairly (perfect doubles count as Alpha/Mike), watch for penalties, and make sure you have a safe/fun time. If you have a potential habit that may become an unsafe habit, we will take you to the side and inform you of that for your own and our safety. We here to to make sure this is a safe/fun sport. Since this is the Hate Forum maybe I should have just said I hate losing potential shooters because they feel overwhelmed and are embarrased by making silly mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 How is swearing showing a lack of respect?---jeeper Ahhhhh, you're kidding right? Respectfully, jkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 what if a woman swears around her fiance? does that also show a lack of respect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 what if a woman swears around her fiance? does that also show a lack of respect? Of course, it would be sexist to think base behavior is limited to one sex. Respectfully, jkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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