Jasonub Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 Hi guys Here in ipsc land where the courses of fire are 9 rounds, 16 for medium and 32 for long courses. Will i be disadvantaged using an open 40? aside from capacity will the open 40 work? will a comp work efficiently on a 40? thanks a lot. BTW Mods pls move my post if its in the wrong location. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 I shot one for a couple years. Other than the capacity and limited selection of decent bullets to load it worked great. Had lots of guys telling me it wouldn't work or that it wouldn't be competive. Well BS I kicked a lot of there butts with it. It did reach a point where it was a small advantage to switch to the 9. If you are starting fresh with no compelling reason to shoot a .40 then go with a 9 major or a super. Better choice of bullets and capacity is an advantage on planning reload points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 good bullets and mag capacity are the only things that the 40 doesnt do as well as the 9mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 The question for you is - Can you get light 40cal bullets in the Philippines?? In the USA you can get Nosler 135gr or Sinterfire even lighter. Without light bullets and a large powder charge behind it, the whole gun is going to jump up from the point of aim and take its sweet time settling back down. I saw that just from shooting 147gr bullets in 9Major with 6-7 grains of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted July 12, 2005 Author Share Posted July 12, 2005 i think we only have 180 and 200 grains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Open gun comps work better with high pressure, and I seriously doubt any .40 gun will have near the high pressure of a 38supercomp shooting 115's. So add "less eficient comp" to the list of cons. Also, physics would say that launching a heavier bullet from rest will create more recoil [and flip] than launching a lighter bullet. Another con to the .40 Sure it will work, and if that is all you have take it out and have a bunch of fun!! But if the question is whether a .40 open gun is truly equal to a .38 super I'd say don't kid yourself. A PS - Back when Chris was kicking butt with a .40 open gun he may have been sandbagging in "C" class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Beven Grams made master shooting .40 open. He was using 125 gr sinterfire bullets at the time. He changed to 9x19 major when that was "legalized". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 That may be true enough.. and Strader made Master with a single-stack. But is a single stack equally competitive to a wide-body? Or is a .40 as competitive as a Super? They print the equipment list from the Nationals to see what works at the highest and most demanding level. Sure you can get good with either, but are you keeping your self from being great in the process? Why make things harder than they need to be with poor equipment choices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Sure you can get good with either, but are you keeping your self from being great in the process? Why make things harder than they need to be with poor equipment choices?<{POST_SNAPBACK}> While I generally tend to agree with this, I'd say that bringing this reasoning to its extreme, everybody should quit using a Glock in Open or Limited division... ...(running for cover before Flex jumps on me)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Here in ipsc land where the courses of fire are 9 rounds, 16 for medium and 32 for long courses.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jason, you should really have a talk with your local CoF designers: I'm in IPSC land too, and I started bringing in CoFs of 10, 15, 18, 21, 25, 28 rounds in local matches, just to get rid of this stereotype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Here in ipsc land where the courses of fire are 9 rounds, 16 for medium and 32 for long courses.<{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jason, you should really have a talk with your local CoF designers: I'm in IPSC land too, and I started bringing in CoFs of 10, 15, 18, 21, 25, 28 rounds in local matches, just to get rid of this stereotype. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i think its just a rule for short, medium, long course... we also have stages composed of 8, 15, 24, 23, etc.. etc... they mix it up a bit certainly.. and when you have stages like 23 to 27 rd long courses.. that when super or 9mm shines and a long mag... you don't need to change mags other than that, its similar to shooting standard i think... Rgds, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 A quote from BamBam "Why make things harder than they need to be with poor equipment choices?" And this is coming from a guy that has never tried one, and shoots a gun that has a rainbow grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 I been shooting a 40 open all this yr. Its shoots flat, even had a GM who was RO'ing comment on how flat it shoots. 135gr @ 1300. I shoot with GM's regulary, the same one that was RO'ing has already commented several times the 40 is no disadvantage at all where he could see because theres always a place to reload. The only thing you have to worry about is round count but there is always a place to reload. I can get 25+1 and be reliable, 26+1 and its so so but if I would send it too Beven to tune he could take care of it. Theres more than enough pressue. Bullet selection is another consideration, theres about 5 or 6 who make the 135 so not as many low weight as the 38 super. Shooting a 40 has nothing to do with making M or even GM. Its all about the shooter. That being said most, like me use a 40 because they already had a limited gun and just wanted a open without buying a completely new gun. I just added a second topend. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 And this is coming from a guy that has never tried one, and shoots a gun that has a rainbow grip. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't need to try square wheels to know that round ones are obviously doing so much better. And don't knock the rainbow grip... its Red/White/Blue motif was painted to honor the battle of Fallajuh where fellow Marines laid a beating on the bad guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Where this all started was whether the .40 was a disadvantage in Open. Stack them up side by side and determine which offers the advantage... Capacity: .40 or 38super ? Pressure for Comp: .40 or 38super ? Lighter bullets: .40 or 38super ? Ballistic coefficient: .40 or 38 super ? Recoil: .40 or 38 super ? Use by top pros: .40 or 38 super ? Is there something a .40 Open gun does better?... because not being better is the same as being worse... and performing worse is techinically a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Everyone has already agreed that between the two the 40 has a disadvantage, the reason were already posted. Is it a giant disadvantage, no its not. Small disadvantage at most. Like I said before most who shoot open 40 do it because they already have half of the gun and don't want or don't have the money for a new complete gun. Thats why I did it, I don't regret it one bit. Having a 38super would not have changed any results of a match I have shot with the 40. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamGE Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Another BamBam Quote "And don't knock the rainbow grip..." Then lets not knock the shooter that likes to shoot .40 open, for their own reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 ask JL hardy if a 40 caliber open gun is competitive! im sure beven knows this is true too. also 125 grain bullet in 40 caliber weighs the same as a 125 grain bullet in 35 caliber. now is it pressure or gas volume that you want for the compensator? because burning 10 grains of powder behind a 125 grain bullet still makes the same amount of gas volume no matter what you shoot it out of.. ballistic coefficient doesnt mean shit for(IPSC) pistols...most shots are fired within 50 yards. recoil difference out of a comp gun is gonna be minimal...adjusting the loads may make it non existant. as far as what the pros are using, Todd Jarret can kick most of our butts with his limited gun(a 40 caliber) so it doesnt really matter anyway for the lighter bullets, anything lighter than 114 grains is illegal in uspsa, and anything under 120 is illegal for IPSC at major power factor...if you can get a 125 grain 40, its inconsequential. there are two facts about 40 open that are true, you will not hold as many rounds as the 35 caliber guys, and you will have fewer bullet options. brass is also 10X cheaper than supercomp. 40 open makes sense if you have a 40 caliber limited gun you want to convert... barrel, comp, scope and mount and one big stick...now your playing in open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Truth be known, I miss shooting my .40 Open gun And yes I have thought about going back to it. Maybe in a slighty different configuration, who knows, she is still in the safe feeling neglected. Oh yea, on a side note, at her last Sectional match before her retirement she did take me to a B Open Class win, with a 186 PF. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 also 125 grain bullet in 40 caliber weighs the same as a 125 grain bullet in 35 caliber. Harmon-Just out of curiosity, where have you found 125g bullets in .40??? I'd like to try them for steel loads. Do you have a photo of your .40 Open gun that you might be able to post to see how easy it is to convert a Limited gun into an Open Blaster? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 The .40 cal makes an excellent open gun. The only real difference is mag capacity. You might spend more on bullets but brass is cheaper (at least compared to the super) The one I started with was a Para P1640 converted to open. It had a EGW seven chamber cone comp and 2 small holes in the barrel. The slide was lighten slightly in the rear. 135gr Nosler and HS-6 made for a real sweet shooting gun. I was a C class shooter at the time, now I'm in A and I still can't run a plate rack or a set of 3 small ipsc shaped steel plates as fast with my supers as I did with the .40. The main reason I switched was I wanted to go to a STI frame and a friend had a good deal on a used 38 super. So far that is the only gun I've sold or traded that I wish I had back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Not to beat a dead horse, but lets not confuse "competitive" with "disadvantage". Shooting a .40 in Open clearly creates some level (choose your pain threshold) of disadvantage, which remains the answer to the original question. Its like swimming against the current. You can still make it to the other side, but you just have to work harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 So, I will then say as far as my experience there is no disadvantage to shooting a .40 in open. This is from shooting .40 since right before it was wildly avaialble. (~13years) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRBean Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 Original questions. "Will I be disadvantaged using an open .40 ?" No "aside from capacity will the open .40 work ?" Yes "will a comp work efficiently on a .40?" Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted July 12, 2005 Share Posted July 12, 2005 A tidbit on the capacity of the .40. How many remember the 9x25. If I remember correctly Dillion sponsored shooters were the main shooters of the 9X25 and they still consistenly finished where they always did. and the 9x25 was a 10mm necked down to 9mm. Same capacity "disadvantage" the .40 has. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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