Sestock Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I am building an AR from scratch for the first time. What coating should I get for the bolt, Phosphate, Hard Chrome or Ti? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 A Mil-spec bolt is all you need. I've see all of them bite you in the ass but the mil-spec bolt/carrier groups fail/malfuction less then other options. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 If your starting from scratch, look up JP Enterprises, I have the stainless low mass system which should give long life and reliability but has a very quick recoil impulse. I shot it next to my buddies nearly identical rifle with the alum. low mass system and neither of us could tell any difference. I have run over 400 rounds through it so far with no failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Mil-spec God knows I'm not a 3-gun expert by any stretch, but I do know that if your AR chokes bad, you are just totally hosed. There are just too many reports of foo-foo bolt/carriers royally screwing the pooch to make me ever want to go down that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 Hard chrome cleans up easier. I think TiN should also, but I've never tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted July 7, 2005 Share Posted July 7, 2005 I got bored and build up a JP stainless carrier with a Smith chrome bolt, old-style firing pin retainer, chome key, and a chrome cam. Oh, so pretty. But... Works just like Liota's all-chrome DPMS bolt carrier group. Which works just like my DPMS mil-spec bolt carrier group. Which works just like my Bushmaster mil-spec bolt carrier group. Which works just like Liota's Colt Colt-spec bolt carrier group. Which works just like my genuine, accept no imitations or civilian-issue "we lie about being mil-spec" mil-spec bolt carrier group All that said (or typed), I do like the way a standard carrier feels if you shave 1.5-2 ounces off it If you don't have a mill, the JP stainless low-mass is spiffy...I'd stay away from the aluminum ones if you want to shoot more than few thousand rounds, though. And the chrome/stainless ones seem to be easier to spot the gunk you missed with the carb cleaner Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pisgahrifle Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 That old stand-by, cheap-a$$ DPMS bolt for about $35 or so will do you right. It may not be shiny or funny colored, but you can't beat it for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 +1 on Wakals advice. The fancy coatings are just that. Fancy coatings. If you have the cash great, but if you are looking for a performance edge there isn't one. The JP low mass stainless is an option if you are doing everything you can to reduce recoil, but I don't necessarily put it in the class of the bling coatings. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 If you are going to load your own ammo, tuned to your rifle, run light bullets, drop to min power factor, get an adjustable gas block and light bolt and be prepared to tune recoil spring as well. I think Tubbs is even making a lite model. Now you'll have a gun that doesn't move hardly at all. However it won't function very well with box ammo. It kinda of the same route people do with the open 38supers in IPSC. If factory ammo is what your going to run, then RRA, Armalite, STAG bolts are just fine. You'll shoot out several barrels before the upper and carrier are worn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 (edited) Get the DPMS, or any quality Milspec one from a reputable manufacturer. They all work the same if they are made to proper tolerances. Erik is right about hard chrome cleaning up a little easier. I like the phosphate finish because I don't notice/mind it getting dirty when I use it ;-) And I am talking about the bolt, not the carrier. The carrier is another story altogether ;-) Edited July 8, 2005 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Confusing... I believe the original question was about the bolt. ... not the bolt carrier. We are on different pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 Yep, bolt, not carrier. I use the Mil DPMS without problems, no reason to change. As for carriers, I have a alum JP with 4000k+ on it without trouble, secret is keep the carbon out of it and lots of mobil 1. When I change it I will go to JP stainless. I also have a Mil DPMS that looks like its going to last forever, same thing, keep the carbon out and lots of mobil 1.------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted July 8, 2005 Author Share Posted July 8, 2005 Thanks for the advice. Lets expand this, what suggestions do you all have for the bolt carrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 See, you need to read the question not just assume, DOH! My JP barrel came with a mil-spec looking phosphate coated bolt, nothing trick. As for the carrier, JP stainless low mass, although George says he has multiple thousands of rounds on his alum. low mass system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 I don't mean this to sound sarcastic in any way, but it comes down to whether you enjoy tinkering or would prefer to shoot. For a lot of people, I think large part of the "fun" is messing with ammo and tinkering with your gun. If that's the case, get the high-zoot stuff and tinker away. To me, fixing guns and tweaking ammo PF's is about as much fun as cleaning toilets. I'd rather spend my time shooting. If you just want something that cycles reliably when you pull the trigger, get plain-vanilla bolt and carrier (and associated parts and springs) and go shooting. There's too many guys kicking butt and taking names with plain-jane rifles to think that the high-zoot stuff gives a much of an advantage except among the super-squad. Personally, I wouldn't get a bolt that's plated, just because it will be a mess if and when it peels. And nitriding seems to be temporary euphoria at best. If you want your bolt to look bitchin, by all means get the nitrided one. I'm dubious as to how much it will actually extend the service life of the parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 As for the carrier, JP stainless low mass, although George says he has multiple thousands of rounds on his alum. low mass system Not just multiple k rounds, more like just about to hit 10k. I am on my 4th set of gas rings, 3rd set of extractor spring/buffers and just about to send the whole thing back to JP to get another low mass carrier and a complete bolt re-build done. The lo-mass carrier started shedding plating at the face and in the sliding contact areas either side of the carrier key at about 4k. It is bare faced now and there is a hammer groove on the underside about a tenth of an inch deep, but it still seals gas on the inside and runs like when it was new. I told John Paul that i had over 7 k on my lo-mass carrier at the RM3G last August and he raised his eybrow and said "we never expected them to run more that a few k rounds". We talked a little and he said that as long as I am getting ring sealing to keep gas pressure on the bolt, it should run fine and that the plating elsewhere on the outside of the carrier was more of a cosmetic than a function issue. Is it possible that i have the longest running alloy lo-mass carrier out there? Anyone else have a torture test running? -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 For the bolt-carrier, assuming the cost differential isn't huge, I would go with a lightened and hard-chromed version. What I like about the hard-chrome is: * easier to clean * You can actually tell that it's dirty. And it's easier to know where it is dirty. * hard-chrome tends to be more slick than phosphate(?) finishes. Of course you're supposed to oil it. But if you don't the finish may help to keep things running. A steel carrier should last a bazillion rounds. I've only run phosphate(?) bolts. I may try a hard-chromed one in the future to see how it goes. Peeling is a possibility. But the extra hardness may pro-long the bolt's life and give the above benefits. I've had the teeth of a phosphate(?) bolt peen and become unreliable. I believe the hard-chrome should make it harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted July 9, 2005 Share Posted July 9, 2005 Arfcom has at least one thread on bolt selection, I think Pat Rogers or some other trainer who sees hundreds of ARs firing thousands of rounds every year made note of some of the failures. I gather several DPMS bolts cracked or failed in some manner. The gist of the thread seemed to be that Colt bolts were some of the best as they were all magnafluxed, flux capacitated, magnadoodled, or in some manner inspected (as in every bolt gets inspected), versus random QC checks by some other manufacturers. I think there is a thread on here somewhere where the guys at MSTN recommended the LMT bolt, and were using it in their builds. Got to respect that recommendation. Me?....I've got one Colt bolt, one Rock River, two JPs. Don't know who makes JP's, but you've got to figure it isn't junk, since his rifles rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tewlman Posted July 11, 2005 Share Posted July 11, 2005 i don't even know who made my bolt... I put it in and it worked now my carrier is a different story. It is a titanium copy of JP's low mass aluminum carrier. I made it after seeing some serious wear an the aluminum one. I probably only have 500-600 rds on it and haven't had any trouble with it. I have the whole "tweaked" recoil system and this gun doesn't move when you shoot it, and i run white box winchester ammo. (160.1pf at the 2003 nats.... whew) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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