rschoon Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I compete in L10 with a P220 in 45 and was wondering why I almost never see them at a match or hear of people even talking of them. I was wondering why this is so as they are awesome firearms. Have a real good feel and good stock triggers. The only thing I could even think of was the outragous price of magazines which are only 7 rounds and the crappy quality of the 10 rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 It's the mags. 7 rounds really puts you at a disadvantage in USPSA Production, especially with the habitual 8 round arrays. You'll constantly be shooting to slide lock with no margin for error. There *is* a light at the end of the tunnel: the Single Stack Provisional Division. Unfortunately, the decision was made to make the new, provisional single-stack division 1911 only. Personally, I think this is a stupid rule, (one that deserves to be broken), and if I were you, I would show up at a match that recognized SS division and load and make ready. Maybe USPSA will see the light if enough people shoot non-1911's in protest. All that said, if the P220 is what you've got, PLEASE, PLEASE feel welcome to come out an shoot with us at Fernan or Lewiston. Yeah, you'll be a couple rounds shy of the rest of the pack, but that doesn't mean you can't have big fun. There's also lots of steel-challenge matches to shoot, and you'll do just fine with 8 rounds in your gun at those. SPPL club website Lewiston Pistol Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 4, 2005 Author Share Posted July 4, 2005 It's the mags. 7 rounds really puts you at a disadvantage in USPSA Production, especially with the habitual 8 round arrays. You'll constantly be shooting to slide lock with no margin for error. There *is* a light at the end of the tunnel: the Single Stack Provisional Division. Unfortunately, the decision was made to make the new, provisional single-stack division 1911 only. Personally, I think this is a stupid rule, (one that deserves to be broken), and if I were you, I would show up at a match that recognized SS division and load and make ready. Maybe USPSA will see the light if enough people shoot non-1911's in protest. All that said, if the P220 is what you've got, PLEASE, PLEASE feel welcome to come out an shoot with us at Fernan or Lewiston. Yeah, you'll be a couple rounds shy of the rest of the pack, but that doesn't mean you can't have big fun. There's also lots of steel-challenge matches to shoot, and you'll do just fine with 8 rounds in your gun at those. SPPL club website Lewiston Pistol Club <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I shot the Checker Challenge in Montana not long ago. It was a 100 round stage from the front seat of a car. I had someone in the back reloading mags. I felt like I was tossing more mags than lead. But it was awesome. I plan on calling Bill S. tomarrow and trying to set up so I can shoot on friday as I have to work during the match on Sat and Sun. I do have 2 10 round mags but I havent shot them enuf to see if they will work properly or not. We'll see. Hopefully SS will get approved for mine and others benifit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 I liken it to a Nascar race using a 5 gal fuel cell for a 500 mile race. Too much time spent in the pits for fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted July 4, 2005 Share Posted July 4, 2005 It's the lack of mags, period, or else I would have one for L-10 also. Perhaps one of us should e-mail Ernest Langdon and find out where he got his mags. I'd bet that they were made custom for him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 The 220 in .38 Super would be an interesting selection for Production. That is, if there had been more than a couple of dozen of them that made it across the Atlantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 I had a full blown LTT custom P220ST with magwell and a bunch of stainless 8 round SIG factory mags. 8 round mags are easy to find. Without the magwell I don't see the P220 really competing with a standard USPSA 1911 setup. As far as I know Langdon was the only one doing magwells on P220's and he is no longer building SIGs at all. Another problem I would see with using the P220 would be that in the guns that I have shot the rounds move forward in the mag during firing so they often do not drop free except when at slide lock. This happened to me a lot and it was frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 5, 2005 Author Share Posted July 5, 2005 I had a full blown LTT custom P220ST with magwell and a bunch of stainless 8 round SIG factory mags. 8 round mags are easy to find.Without the magwell I don't see the P220 really competing with a standard USPSA 1911 setup. As far as I know Langdon was the only one doing magwells on P220's and he is no longer building SIGs at all. Another problem I would see with using the P220 would be that in the guns that I have shot the rounds move forward in the mag during firing so they often do not drop free except when at slide lock. This happened to me a lot and it was frustrating. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sig mags can be easy to find but they seem to be pretty spendy. as far as the magwell, I have been looking for one but to this point am unable to find one. I will probably have a local gunsmith find or make one for me. (He is well tuned to competiton set ups as well as a Sig armorer.) I have never had an issue with the rounds not letting the mags fall free. But this is also my first season in USPSA competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufit323 Posted July 5, 2005 Share Posted July 5, 2005 My Sig 239 (single stack 9mm) has problems with that round advancing and not allowing a free fall. for the most part, that can be remedied by having a little oil on your hands when loading mags (but who really wants to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 8, 2005 Share Posted July 8, 2005 My understanding is that there are no easy P220 magwell options available. What Ernest did was weld a modified Wilson Combat "Custom Magwell" (the one that goes under the grips and hooks onto the grip screw bushings) to the bottom of the gun and blend it in. Here are a couple pics of my old gun. You can see the magwell pretty well in these shots to get an idea of what was done. It worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 9, 2005 Author Share Posted July 9, 2005 Talked to the gunsmith the other day and he said that it would be a bit spendy to manufacture a mag well for it. Around a couple hundred. He would have to machine a blank ort of aluminium and then have it welded as he doesn't have a tig welder. then he would have to chuck it and machine it. He also said another option would be to just machine a 60 degree bevel on the existing mag well. that would only be around $50.00. Oh well. I may just save the money and purchase a different gun next season. Don't know yet though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted July 10, 2005 Share Posted July 10, 2005 Yep. It was a bit easier with mine because it was a P220ST and the stainless Wilson Combat well didn't require much modification before welding it on. With an aluminum frame it's tougher. Like I said before there are several good reasons why you don't see a lot of P220's in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 10, 2005 Author Share Posted July 10, 2005 Yep. It was a bit easier with mine because it was a P220ST and the stainless Wilson Combat well didn't require much modification before welding it on. With an aluminum frame it's tougher.Like I said before there are several good reasons why you don't see a lot of P220's in USPSA. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Looks like I will have to start trying to save some $$$. Until then I will have to just keep doin. And I really like my Sig. It works flawlessly. Even if I don't. In the mean time I could get a trigger job and sights on my glock 17 and go production. Not my first choice but a viable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry in IN Posted July 22, 2005 Share Posted July 22, 2005 I've shot my P220 in IPSC/IDPA, but it's been a few years. At the time, I carried it a lot for self-defense, so it seemed natural to shoot it. The Sig 8-rd mags were new when I last used that gun, so never tried them. So I had to reload a little more often- it was good practice for my purposes. Besides, when I did OK, I got to hear "Good job for what you were using". Which is the highest praise I will ever get. Do you use the P220 as a carry gun? If so, just keep shooting it. An couple more reloads per match won't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 I am using the 7 round mags. I am sure getting better at my reloads. I do use it for carry and when I was a cop it was my duty weapon. Tons of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rschoon Posted July 23, 2005 Author Share Posted July 23, 2005 I also have to plan reloads more efficiantly. In the long run I will benifit greatly. Just need to keep practicing and have fun. I am also trying 3-gun so I need to practice the other guns as well. I think that this will slow down my improvement a little but hey, I LOVE IT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctgun Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I also have a Sig220 that I would love to shoot in L10. The biggest problem to me is the lack of any good 10 round mags. I know that you can shoot it with the 7 or 8 round mags and extra reloads but as it is you are already at disadvantage shooting against a downloaded S_I. So please someone out there make a decent 10 round mag for us!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 My understanding is that there are no easy P220 magwell options available. What Ernest did was weld a modified Wilson Combat "Custom Magwell" (the one that goes under the grips and hooks onto the grip screw bushings) to the bottom of the gun and blend it in.Here are a couple pics of my old gun. You can see the magwell pretty well in these shots to get an idea of what was done. It worked well. Bought a P220 today. Should be to me in a few days. Anyone else fool with a magwell for this gun since this thread was fresh? Sure as hell don't need it but I had a P220 once and kinda like it so... I convinced myself that the price was right and "here we go." I need a couple of 8 rd mags (may take this to the local IDPA match) and a magwell. I think I still have a MS Summer Special and I believe the mages will work fine out of a 1911 mag pouch..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 The 220 in .38 Super would be an interesting selection for Production. That is, if there had been more than a couple of dozen of them that made it across the Atlantic. I had a P220 in .38 Super I carried for awhile in a Blocker IWB rig. I became a little disenchanted when I chronoed the ammo (this was before there was ANY high-performance stuff available in that caliber). I do know a guy who has one of the original Browning BDAs in .38 Super, which of course is a high-gloss version of the P220 with European butt-heel mag release. He's pretty proud of this gun, and brought it out of his vault just long enough for me to take this photo (quite a few years ago): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 That guy looks......like a player.... Wonder if he can shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If you already have a supply of 7 rd mags, SIG sells the conversion to make them hold 8. It's what I did with mine. It too was a duty carry for a few years until my Dept went to Winchester Silver Tips for the 45s. My SIG never gagged until we went to that crap. Still got it as my nightstand gun. Loaded with CorBons though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 If you already have a supply of 7 rd mags, SIG sells the conversion to make them hold 8. It's what I did with mine. It too was a duty carry for a few years until my Dept went to Winchester Silver Tips for the 45s. My SIG never gagged until we went to that crap.Still got it as my nightstand gun. Loaded with CorBons though. Thanks for that. The gun comes with a couple of 8 rd and 2 or 3 7 rd mags. I will just get the conversions - if they work right. The 220 will ride in my glovebox mainly but still will see an IDPA match - just because I can. I am hoping it will work well with my 200 gr P. Black Bullet loads I use for my 1911s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctgun Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I used to shoot my P220 in USPSA but gave it up because the aftermarket 10 round mags were so bad. But I was checking Sig's website and they have finally listened and are selling factory 10 round mags. I intend to buy a couple and try L10 again with it. If these mags work as well as the standard 7 or 8 round mags then I would say we Sig lovers would be in buisness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperdog Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I recently retired from law enforcement and was presented my Sig P220 that I carried on duty. I was going to use the gun in single stack as well as IDPA but was told since it had the light rail it was not allowed. Not really sure what advantage I would have with the light rail in USPSA or IDPA. So I now have a very nice carry gun that I cant use in competion....just seems odd I can carry it all day but it is illegal to use for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 Use it for Lim10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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