Need some advice on case gage failures

[GregJ]

Setting up my new Dillon 1050 with AmmoBot, and having a heck of time getting rounds to gage. Below are the specs:

Zero 124g RN, 1.115 OAL, .3775 taper crimp, mixed headstamp brass.

I am running the press manually until I get things ironed out. My gages are a Wilson cartridge gage, Shockbottle, and barrel from a CZ 75 SA Target (my 1911 with Barstow barrel is in the "shop"). For now, all the rounds are run through all 3 gages. The last batch of 100, all passed the Shockbottle and CZ barrel plunk test, but two failed the Wilson gage. The attached pic is one of them.  The interference point is just above the case mouth. The rounds go all into the gage but the last few mm.  Per Dillon's crimp calculator, the taper crimp I am using is medium to light (avg case wall thickness of .012 and .355 bullets).

This has been driving me crazy, the results with the original Dillon dies were much worse. I pulled them and put in a Hornady sizing/decapping, Hornady seating, and Redding Taper Crimp die,  I had lying around, which is what was used to load this particular batch.

If the bullet was began crooked, I should see the mark on the case at the bottom of the bullet.

Maybe just some bullets that are not quite in spec?

[Sarge]

Screw charts, tables, crimp calculators etc. First thing I would do is turn the crimp down a hair and recrimp then drop in the gauge.

Crooked bullets get straightened as they load so thats a non issue here. 

Can't see the bottom of the round to tell if its really hanging up on the mouth. Sure some sharpie is rubbed off but gauges are pretty unforgiving and could probably scrape the ink off even if it is good in that area. I have rounds fail all the time because of a spec of gun powder gets in there.

[Jeff Phillips]

I agree, the crimp is often the culprit. Just go delicately as if you do it, even a hair, too much, your accuracy can go to hell. If you wanted a little more sensitive marking method, you could try smoking it as well, that is a much more sensitive coating than sharpie.

[Hi-Power Jack]

8 hours ago, GregJ said:

  The last batch of 100, all passed the CZ barrel plunk test, but two failed the Wilson gage. 

If they pass the "barrel plunk test", that's good enough for me.   

[rooster]

Your numbers seem to be spot on.  As Sarge said sharpie is removed easily and may not be a crimp problem.  Are you using a EGW u die?  Before belling drop your case in your gauges and see if they pass.  I run my crimp .377-.378 and that fits a Barsto chamber, but if the rim area is bulged at all it's a no go.  At the resize station if I feel any more resistance in the stroke than usual I'll pull that case and inspect and there is usually a tell tale bulge.  I'll then sometimes put that case in my gauge and if it fits I'll load and then after the crimp stage I'll check again.  If it's really bad I'll chuck it.  The u die will fix most of this.

[GregJ]

44 minutes ago, rooster said:

Your numbers seem to be spot on.  As Sarge said sharpie is removed easily and may not be a crimp problem.  Are you using a EGW u die?  Before belling drop your case in your gauges and see if they pass.  I run my crimp .377-.378 and that fits a Barsto chamber, but if the rim area is bulged at all it's a no go.  At the resize station if I feel any more resistance in the stroke than usual I'll pull that case and inspect and there is usually a tell tale bulge.  I'll then sometimes put that case in my gauge and if it fits I'll load and then after the crimp stage I'll check again.  If it's really bad I'll chuck it.  The u die will fix most of this.

I have an EGW-U die on the way, as I expect that will resolve this and another issue as well.  Cases that have been just sized drop into the gages just fine, no problem there. I really do not think there is an issue with the rim area as I can easily insert the round into the Wilson gage rim first, and it will drop in a bit, past the area that sticks up above the gage when checking it. Problem with checking the case if something feels unusual while reloading, I am trying to get the 1050 running as best near 100% because I have an AmmoBot too. So I need to make this thing as error-proof as I can.  It just seems odd that the crimp can affect that area of the bullet. Now if I was severely over-crimping, or roll crimping, maybe this would be a resulting deformation.  

 

8 hours ago, Sarge said:

Sure some sharpie is rubbed off but gauges are pretty unforgiving and could probably scrape the ink off even if it is good in that area.

Since gages are unforgiving, this is the prime reason to use them.  If they fit the gage, they will/should fit everything else I have. This is not just a rub by the gage. To get this mark, I am forcing the round as far into the gage as I can with my thumb, and then having to use the end of the marker to push the round back out. This is a hard interference point, which is keeping the rim above the gage.  These rounds also tend to fail my Barstow barrel, but seem to pass my CZ barrel. My 1911 is my main comp gun.

Tonight I will drop several bullets through the Wilson gage and see if any hang up, mark them, load them, and see if they are the culprits when gaged.  Maybe it's just the occasional bad bullet???

 

Edited January 11, 2017 by GregJ

[GregJ]

I got an EGW-U die and still have several, like 10%, that still fail like this. I also went with a Redding Pro seating and Redding taper crimp die. 

This is driving me nutz. 

Edited January 15, 2017 by GregJ

[igolfat8]

If you want perfection, run your brass through a Case Pro.

[GregJ]

I will look into the Case Pro. 

A friend came over to help and I think we got it figured. I needed to seat the Zeros to 1.10 and some how the EGW had backed out some. 

[mikev49]

I have noticed with all the different headstamps out there now a days that the rim itself will prevent a lot of rounds from going all the way into a wilson or egw case gauge.