mikeAZ Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Am I living in a "dream" world?..... I don't want a tube feeder.... I had them all (early MKA, Sagia's, Vepr). Even after mods, none were as reliable as needed for competition. I was about to make the plunge and try this, the "UTAS-USA XTR12BM1 XTR-12 Semi-Auto 12ga", a USA made mag fed model. Looks like "they" have moved production to Turkey????. I see "Tooth & Nail" was working on this gun and it looks promising BUT I'm not willing to spend another wad of money just to make them semi-reliable?.....I've contacted EAA about the MKA "Match Pro", maybe a bit better than most., then I see there is a MKA "Match Pro, gen 2, (AR style butt stock) for sale in Canada but not the USA....(EAA says only certain configurations can be imported)... I might take the plunge and try the later model MKA, ad the AR style butt stock but my early version had problems with the feed lips on the plastic ramp and magazines over 5 rounds were iffy . Now I see the MKA's have "floating metal" feed lips ???... Anyone got a clear picture of this????... Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganbillJ Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 The MKA's have come a long way since the early versions. The Match Pro is nothing more than a Match with a different handgaurd. Several websites mislead people to think there are many other things done but its the exact same gun as a Match. The floating feed ramp is a good design for the civilian market. In a competition gun it creates another point of failure. Options are to pin the feed ramp or replace the lower with a billet aluminum one. As you know having an early model if you weren't careful during dis-assembly you could damage the feed ramp. The XN model was greatly improved over the "Magnum" and "Pre-XN" models by shortening the gas system and improving the trigger. This increased reliability and still remains my favorite model for a competition gun. I had over 15k on my personal gun(XN) before retiring it at the end of this season. I am building another XN for next season. I would hold off on the XTR-12. We haven't had enough time to get all the bugs worked out and the factory seems to be making running changes all the time to the platform which makes it difficult to work on. Until they hold onto one version we are waiting to do too much with the platform. Feel free to ask any questions you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compshootfl Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 I would steer clear, based on what I have heard. If you couldn't get a Vepr 12 to run reliably...maybe open shotgun isn't your game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 My T&N MKA 1919 runs 99.5% reliably with all mags from the 24 to the 5. Matt & Josh have them dialed in. Going on 3 years. Thousands of rounds. Just shot an all steel match with close to 200 rounds without a single malfunction. I shoot with Mike & Lan from Dissident Arms and their CR-12 (competition ready) Vepr runs like a top. Several very good open shooters run them. Wouldn't hesitate to use either platform. They have come a long way since the early days. gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mksm2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 How's BR-99 compared to MK1919? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfmaster Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Check out this thorough review of the Xtr 12: https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_121/700254_UTAS-XTR-12-just-came-in--AR-10-style-shotgun-.html&page=1 Suggest you read it before you buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKJD Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I have a T&N 1919 Match that has been an absolute dumpster fire so maybe I got the lemon. Never seen a round over 3 dram and I can't make it through a match without something breaking. Bolt carrier broke in one match. Piston broke into 3 pieces on another. Won't reliably feed any magazine over 10 rounds. I have absolutely no faith in the gun so now it sits in the back of the safe. Several other shooters in the area have 1919's and only ones works regularly. The only reliable mag fed shotgun I have seen is a R&R Saiga a friend shoots. If you have one that works I'm happy for you wish I had the same experience. At this point I just look at as a hard lesson learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 From my experience, replacing the plastic pos lower with an aftermarket aluminum lower makes all the difference in the world. Its well worth the money...turned my 1919 from a unreliable toy as described by AKJD above into a ultra-reliable competition shotgun, takes all mags up to 24 rounders (after feed lip adjustments). Just feed it good quality ammo. imho jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoganbillJ Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 20 hours ago, mksm2016 said: How's BR-99 compared to MK1919? BR-99 is essentially a Pre-XN MKA. They can be made to run but not all parts are interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 serfmaster & others.., went to the link, Very recent info, Thanks!!!..Whew, glad I've not bought one. I've got some experience with the Saigas, MKA, presently have a Vepr. (I'm probably the worst weak hand tube feeder loader out there?, more shells on the ground than in the gun ), so this is why the magazine fed shotguns interest me. . ... On every (both early & late models) Saiga 12 , I had to pull the barrels and open the gas ports up to .092 or more. The early MKA was my 1st. pro built shotgun ( mostly mag /feeding problems). The Vepr is a improvement over the Saiga. But doesn't load easily on the closed bolt for me, even with bolt mods (ugly & heavy with the 25 round drum).....I don't shoot shotgun regularly and can't see spending $2000/$3000 on a shotgun that isn't used that much ALTHOUGH I enjoy the platform.... Looks like I should curb my enthusiasm till these mag feeders have the problems worked out...... These days , you can buy a decent AR for less than $1000, why is a reliable box stock mag fed shotgun such a myth?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DialTone301 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Can anyone comment on the advantages/disadvantages of the Tooth and Nail MKA vs Firebird's TAC 12? I am planning on buying one or the other for my daughter next month and have been reading everything I can about both. Tooth and Nail seems to be very actively building and competing with their guns. They have a metal lower available (which I think is a requirement for consistent running) and a mid barrel comp. I don't see much activity lately about Firebird but I like the fact that he makes his own upper and lower receivers. I have seen threads about customer service between the two.....at the moment I am more interested in hearing about the guns themselves. Reliability, parts breakage, recoil, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd7446 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 I can't give you much in the way of comparison between the two, but I can speak about my Firebird TAC-12A1. I've had it for about 6 months now. Had a few teething problems when brand new, caused by me and ammo selection. Now, running with 3 dram Fiocchi loads, it's a sewing machine. I've got enough rounds through it now that I can probably begin to play with the gas relief spring to soften the recoil even further, but I just haven't done that yet. I don't have a mid-barrel comp on it, and don't plan on getting one. It shoots very nicely and I don't want the hassle of shaving wads in the barrel holes or that much hot gas around my hand. I'm VERY happy with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DialTone301 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Todd7446 can I ask the shot weight of the 3 dram loads? When we tested a first gen Akdal she found out that 7/8 oz loads made the recoil much softer. With heavier loads she hated the recoil enough that she almost changed her mind about open class. How would you say the recoil is on the TAC-12? At the same time she tested a fully modified Saiga (with a mid barrel comp) and liked the recoil but not the ergonomics so much. We intend on buying something next month so that we have some time to work out the bugs before the season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd7446 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I use 1 1/8 oz. shot weights just to get the most out there. I've never tried lighter weights. I find the recoil very manageable, but to be fair, I'm 6'1" and 230#. I have traded guns with another shooter that was running a different 1919 pattern gun that had a mid-barrel comp. We both agreed that mine had less felt recoil and quicker follow-ups. It is also a little heavier, so that undoubtedly helped. With a limbsaver on it (it was installed when I bought it), it isn't bad. It will only get better when I start to play more with the gas relief spring to allow it to vent more out the front. I've never shot a Saiga so I can't comment there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted December 16, 2016 Author Share Posted December 16, 2016 MKA Match ordered..... We shall see?..... From the site comments & a T&N phone conversation...... I'll will try that newer version/platform, once more. Shot the Shotgun/carbine match at RIO 12/15/16 (Thursday night)... With the CZ Scorpion 9mm rifle, (these are runner's, change the trigger springs and go, we have 3 each in our group).... One of the better shotgun shooter's was using a Vepr 12 and had lot's of problems... ("It" usually worked well) Thanks, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DialTone301 Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Let us know what you think of the MKA Match when you get it. I agree on the CZ Scorpion.....I shoot mine in PCC at USPSA matches and it runs perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeAZ Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 DialTone301.... Sent you a CZ update Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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