Shooter Grrl Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 I'm really into the visualization stuff. Works for me about 98% of the time. I see what I want to do, and then do it. The problem I'm having is when something doesn't go as I visualized - screws up the "movie" for the rest of the stage. For instance - a 4 popper array with a swinger on the left and a turner on the right, activated by the right and left poppers. Movie in my head says shoot poppers left to right, hit turner, go back left for swinger. Reality - missed second popper, hit 3 & 4 then went back for #2 (WHILE THE TURNER WAS DROPPING). Hit #2, hit the turner twice, NEVER engaged the swinger (DOH!) So... how do you visualize overcoming what shouldn't have happened? If I start "planning" for disaster, am I courting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball Posted May 20, 2002 Share Posted May 20, 2002 Actually SG what I have found works for me is pretty simple. In an instance like you describe I make a point to continue on with the "visualized" plan until everything but that one popper is engaged as planned, then move back. It takes some forethought in the planning stage for the first few times but after that it becomes natural. It actually makes the popper easier to hit as well because you have moved on and it is now a new target again. It sounds like what happened is common to us both because I still do silly things and think, man, how did I do THAT?! Anyway, I don't know what others might know so that is about all the help I can be. Smile and have fun. I still owe you a couple of Vettes, I know, I have been lazy lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 22, 2002 Author Share Posted May 22, 2002 To what point do you continue on HB? You can't go back to an array once you've engaged the next one... How to you program "going back" for missed shots? Wouldn't that then make you miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Shooter grrl, As usual - "good" question. Maybe your signature holds a clue - "Maybe there's something to this whole practice thing....." … if you think of practicing as practicing visualization. After shooting a stage, whether it was "good" or "bad," remember and compare what you visualized to what actually happened. After some practice with this your questions will begin to answer themselves. Since things seldom go as planned, it's not bad to imagine as many possible scenarios as you can imagine, in addition to the emphasized "glory plan." When visualizing a stage with "variables," (steel, turners, droppers, swingers), just because you imagine what you might change in your sequence, should you happen to miss this or that target, doesn't imply that you will miss them, because you're imagining what action you'll take IF you miss. So you're not planing to miss, you're planning what to do if you should. Think of it like this - You're looking at a light tree with three differently colored lights. If the red light comes on draw and shoot a string left to right. If the blue light comes on you draw and shoot the same string right to left. If the green light comes on don't do anything but scream as loud as you can. You are training to RESPOND, not to habitually follow some set procedure that seldom happens. Think of responding as - at each moment, what is happening is dependent on your observation of what just happened. So, as long as everything is going as planned, you will continue to execute the preferred plan. If it does not, at that point, having a back-up plan to revert to is beneficial. Being prepared beforehand is the key. Practice looking stages over for traps. (So your mind doesn't panic.) Ask - if I miss this steel, what's the best course of action? Do that with every target that could introduce an "execution change." After you become familiar with this "level of planing not to plan," you won't be as dependent on the glory plan. Observe how your mind processes and responds to sensory inputs while driving, for example. Sure, we plan to arrive at the store, but what about the myriad variables we encounter on the way? The more skilled you become, the more visually adaptive you must become. At the higher levels of IPSC competition, this is paramount. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Anybody care to go into the differences between "response" and "reaction"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Flex, Funny, after I posted that I shut down the machine and was getting ready to go for a run. I thought of one critical sentence to add to the post. So I fired up the machine and stuck it in there. Then, I noticed your post. How synchronistic. "Think of responding as - at each moment, what is happening is dependent on your observation of what just happened." To me, reacting implies a lack of awareness of "what just happened." I think that pretty much applies to every form of reaction/response. Like when we uncontrollably react emotionally to "some situation," it's because we are unaware of our stored ideas, views, and beliefs regarding that issue. So, "what just happened" extends to any perceivable time period - from what we call the last instant to what has been accumulated and stored for years. be I'm really off for a jog now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Flex, I got some more on responding vs reacting while jogging… Reacting implies, at each moment, physical activity that arises from and is accompanied by inattention. Responding is appropriate activity, or impeccable action, which arises from clear intent, and is carried out by total attention. Missing a target is not an appropriate response to the demands of the moment. Or, if clear intent is accompanied by total attention, we don't create mistakes. Often we miss because our mind is not freely attending at that moment, and instead is filled with preconceived notions from the past, such as - I'm shooting too slow or I'm shooting too fast, or I gotta be careful, or I'm being too careful. From this we can see that a miss is a reaction. So we can call a hit an appropriate response. It's not possible to respond appropriately if we're concerned with the past or worried about the future. I began investigating this distinction, years ago, after I read a quote from the Buddha - Respond, don't react. It's been said that after his enlightenment, he preached what he'd realized for over forty years, always handing out appropriate advice to each individual depending on that individuals capacity to understand. At times he'd speak of "the highest truth," at other times he'd speak of cause and effect. He always responded to the demands of the moment. He didn't just dish out a fixed understanding. Apply this to every aspect of living… be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 Simple enough post...but there is a lot there. I'll have to let it sink in for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 23, 2002 Author Share Posted May 23, 2002 Hmmm - thought provoking stuff BE. I think I may be confused (no surprise there huh I've been using the visualization to plan the stage, but to also plan the HITS. Seeing before hand where I want each and every shot to go has helped my accuracy about 500% :-) So I equate a miss as a breakdown in my "movie". Looks like I gotta go back to "call that shot 101" and rethink my visualizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 OMG BE.... That is the conservation that your tag line "Perception without a perciever is response" caused with my friends the night I posted about. http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...=31&topic=9 Your thoughts are what I took from this conversation and the tag line. (Edited by Singlestack at 6:46 pm on May 23, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Shooter grrl, Yea, just because you consider options doesn't mean you will act on them. When total attention is present, there are no options; only appropriate activity remains. Which arises from clear intent, trust, and determination. All of which dispel fear and doubt, which are the roots of error. SS, (I'm guessing "conservation" was intended to be "conversation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 benos: Your timing is impeccable. I called a couple of bad shots in a match last weekend, but I did not make the appropriate response. Now I know why and how to respond vs. react next time around. Thanks for giving me something to ponder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted May 24, 2002 Author Share Posted May 24, 2002 clear intent, trust, and determination. All of which dispel fear and doubt, which are the roots of error. Trust what? May seem like a stupid question, but honestly, this is the first time I've heard that word in relation to shooting! (Edited by Shooter Grrl at 6:43 am on May 24, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 SS, (I'm guessing "conservation" was intended to be "conversation"? Grrrrrrr... and I called myself proof reading it before I posted it....... Conversation...... see, I can spell! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 Whoohoo! I finally found this thread. Chasing Butterflies, Turning loose the badger, Training vs. Trusting, Flying paper aeroplanes... http://www.brianenos.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard...17&topic=12 (Edited by Rich Bagoly at 4:04 pm on May 26, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted May 31, 2002 Share Posted May 31, 2002 Shooter grrl, As far as physical skill goes, if you don't or can't trust, (meaning you're not absolutely certain on what you NEED to do for what you want to do to happen), you'll probably be trying instead of allowing (the combination of your body-mind and your current skill level to manifest perfect activity). I think of the concept of execution like this - Instead of trying this or that, instead, create favorable conditions for what you want to happen. Think about how that applies to any form of "execution," which implies doing, on demand, something you've already learned or trained to do. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 btt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Flexmoney, Coming from abroad, what do all those abbreviations, like btt mean? They're not in my dictionary !? Maybe a list would help. This forum tends to be an international shooting site. Enlighten me Thank you, DVC, Henny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 btt = bump to top...just bringing a good thread back to life (thanks to SooterGrrl for linking to it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cr10x Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Oh man, I really love the responding versus reacting. Lots to explore there and probably could be the start of a great zen thead. How about this shorter version? Responding is what you do, reacting is what you get when you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Reacting is better, it means that your mind has been at work! DVC, Wile E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Burwell Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 [off topic] schmitz, I live here in the USA and often cannot understand the abreviations. I find acronym finder very useful. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lndshrk Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Something another old Guru of mine once said: "Medication - you want your body to respond, not react to it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Instead of trying this or that, instead, create favorable conditions for what you want to happen. This line is speaking to me. Wow. - Gabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitz Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Thank you Danial97 for refering to this site, it makes life easier! DVC, with kind regards, Henny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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