1-2 Reload 3 Drill

[SlvrDragon50]

I came across the 1-2-R-3 drill on pistol training, and I figured I'd give it a shot. I was hoping you guys would be able to guide me towards where I should focus my time on.

I don't have times because I can't hear my phone shot timer, and a lot of times were messed up by other shooters at the range. That said, my problem goes beyond time. This is a picture of my first attempt at 5 yards:

My best was missing only the first square. However, I ran the exercise 4 times, and all four times I would miss the first square.

Should I continue to run this exercise or will it just be a waste of ammo? I'm currently working on trying to maintain focus on the front sight after shooting since I have a tendency to look at the target and see if I hit it or not. I'm a fairly new shooter with only ~1200 shots of experience so my trigger pull isn't the greatest either.

[Hi-Power Jack]

I'm not familiar with that drill

But, I love the Dot Torture Drill ...

[SlvrDragon50]

Oh. It is:

1) 1 shot on the 1"x1" square

2) 2 shots on the 2" circle

3) Reload

4) 3 shots on the big rectangle.

I am not allowed to do the dot torture drill since I can't do holster work. Technically... I can't even do speed shooting.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Try the dot torture drill from the low ready ...

You're missing because you're shooting too rapidly -

slow it down, watch the sights and the trigger ...

[SlvrDragon50]

Try the dot torture drill from the low ready ...

You're missing because you're shooting too rapidly -

slow it down, watch the sights and the trigger ...

Okay, thanks! I was taking about 5-6 seconds for the first shot on the 1x1 square and still missing so perhaps 5 yards was too far to start.

I wasn't sure if the dot torture drill was still valid from the low-ready position, but I will try that next time. Thank you!

[Hi-Power Jack]

What gun/ammo are you using?

Do you have any competition experience?

I've never heard of getting any closer than 5 yards - the Dot Torture Drill

is usually shot at 7-10 yards.

You should try the drill(s) without a time limit - just take your time and

hit the targets.

Work on speed as you progess ...

[SlvrDragon50]

I am using a 9mm CZ85 Combat with quite a few CGW parts in it. One thing I am struggling with is the heat and a weakened grip due to sweat. I find that I can maintain a much stronger grip when I am at home dry firing in the AC. I have some new grips on order to hopefully try and resolve this issue.

I am just using 115gr Blazer Aluminum because my range doesn't allow for reloads, and I've been told this aluminum Blazer shoots pretty similar to the brass.

I have zero competition experience and very little shooting experience in general. My trigger pull discipline has a lot of space for improvement.

I would try the drill at 7-10 yards, but I'm pretty sure I can't even get past the first dot 100% at 10 yards.

[MemphisMechanic]

Mastering the first dot is something we all have to do at some point.

It teaches you to present the gun, acquire an acceptable sight picture, and maintain it until the shot breaks - which requires pulling the trigger straight back without messing up your sights.

Try it at three yards. No need to humiliate yourself at five.

The dots translate very well to things like 8" diameter steel plates at 15-20 yards, or headshots at 10-15, which you will need to do in USPSA.

Practical pistol is a game of speed yeah, but it's accuracy at speed

Edited August 1, 2016 by MemphisMechanic

[Daft]

so your are in the middle and low? Do you have your sights set to work at a particular distance?

[a matt]

Dry fire will help LOTS. Making sure the front sight doesn't move when you are pulling that trigger. Lots of great info here and in books from Steve Andersons and Ben Stoeger. Dry fire to get things rolling and use live fire to check accuracy and everything you picked up from dry fire. Saves lots of waisted ammo & time dry firing. But remember in dry fire don't cheat yourself with bad sight pic and rushing. Good luck and welcome to the club!

[SlvrDragon50]

I haven't sighted in my sights myself, but I think CZ sights them in at 25 yards from the factory (though everything was off POA).

I don't want to blame the sights yet since I don't have consistent groupings yet.

I waxed my car today so I was a little exhausted to go shooting and would have just wasted ammo. I'll be going tomorrow after I get some new grips to see if maybe ergonomics may be an issue. Will report back.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

[a matt]

Sight that thing in bud. If you can use a bench or something steady use it. No one will guarantee their sites are accurate, shipping can be ruff. Lol

[SlvrDragon50]

So the reason why I never sighted in my gun was because I assumed even if I have a rest, I can still jerk the shot with my finger correct?

I think my range will sight it in for me, but they charge quite a bit for it. I had my RO buddy shoot it, and he didn't have any issues. It shot a little low at 5 yards, but I think that is to be expected.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you get a nice solid rest, take your time and squeeze slowly - try this at 10 yards.

You don't want your buddy or the range to sight it in, because you will hit a different point

than they do.

Yes, the bullets will hit a little low at 5 yards - don't worry about that right now - it will hit less than

an inch low - it's really the group SIZE that matters.

At 10 yards, with a bench rest, you should be able to get 2 inch groups ...

That should be your main concern right now - work on shooting offhand, and quickly, later.

Get the sights adjusted for the ammo you'll be using and for Your eyesight, and then slowly

learn to shoot groups from a solid bench rest.

After you can hit 2 inch groups at 10 yards, then start shooting offhand at 5 yard, slowly

at first - and then slowly pick up speed.

You should do a lot of reading about proper grip and trigger work before you go too far.

Good luck with your new hobby

[SlvrDragon50]

Dot Torture Drill... sucked.

I got a total score of 27/50 I think. I did 2 handed weak hand shooting instead of single weak hand shooting because I know my weak hand sucks and still missed a ton. My recoil kept going up and to the left so my weak hand needs more strength. I also missed all of my strong hand shots which is a little weird since usually I hit at least one. I think the heat was really getting to me today too.

Unfortunately, I think my range is not very good for this drill since I can't do holster work, and I was told to not reload the gun with the barrel pointed upwards. Still, lots of work to be done. Trigger control is far from good.

I think I might go back to just working on bullseye shooting to master trigger control? Not sure. I will give the Dot Torture Drill another shot when I get screws for my new grips. My grip really sucked today.

[cjdaniel78]

If you were at the range with me, here is what I would do.

Bring the target in close. Real close, like 2 or 3 yards. Focus on one single dot, then align the sights and focus on the front sight hard. Press the trigger gently, don't try to force it. Repeat. When you are pressing the trigger, nothing but the front sight matters. When you can put six rounds into a hole similar to that shown in the #2 circle, you will have proven to yourself that you can do it and you'll have started to grasp the difference between perfect sight picture vs acceptable sight picture.

There is no reason to do holster work in live fire until you get your marksmanship down. As you get better, move the target back. If you start to screw up, get back close and "reset" your self image.

The absolute worst thing you can do is try to get the perfect sight picture then... YANK THE TRIGGER NOW! I know, I spent an entire summer in 2013 (pre-competition shooting) trying to figure out why my CCW started shooting low left. I couldn't believe it was me as my group size stayed the same. My trigger jerk was that consistent - and bad.

Finally, moving the sights to compensate for a jerk is a band-aid that only works within a narrow range to target. (Tried that too)

You need to sight in the gun, but only once you know how to press the trigger without influencing the sight alignment. As you get better at recoil control you'll be able to press the trigger quicker and quicker without affect the sights.

"There's a lot to be learned at the 3 yard line" - Ben Stoeger

[johnbu]

Having just fired off 800+ rounds at a Stoeger class, I'm circling back to basics. Perfecting trigger control with white wall dry fire work. And the ability to transition between targets and HONESTLY get a solid sight picture while still doing all the "little things" correctly. Like weak hand "gripping the shit out of the gun", smoothly moving the gun around, maintaining front/rear sight alignment, etc. All those things are learned dry fire. Do it daily and you will improve. The class all improved in just 2 days.

[SlvrDragon50]

If you were at the range with me, here is what I would do.

Bring the target in close. Real close, like 2 or 3 yards. Focus on one single dot, then align the sights and focus on the front sight hard. Press the trigger gently, don't try to force it. Repeat. When you are pressing the trigger, nothing but the front sight matters. When you can put six rounds into a hole similar to that shown in the #2 circle, you will have proven to yourself that you can do it and you'll have started to grasp the difference between perfect sight picture vs acceptable sight picture.

There is no reason to do holster work in live fire until you get your marksmanship down. As you get better, move the target back. If you start to screw up, get back close and "reset" your self image.

The absolute worst thing you can do is try to get the perfect sight picture then... YANK THE TRIGGER NOW! I know, I spent an entire summer in 2013 (pre-competition shooting) trying to figure out why my CCW started shooting low left. I couldn't believe it was me as my group size stayed the same. My trigger jerk was that consistent - and bad.

Finally, moving the sights to compensate for a jerk is a band-aid that only works within a narrow range to target. (Tried that too)

You need to sight in the gun, but only once you know how to press the trigger without influencing the sight alignment. As you get better at recoil control you'll be able to press the trigger quicker and quicker without affect the sights.

"There's a lot to be learned at the 3 yard line" - Ben Stoeger

Unfortunately, my range doesn't allow for 3 yard shooting, only 5 yard shooting. I think you're right with the forcing the shot again. I have to relearn to let the break of the shot surprise me. I just came back from a 2 month hiatus from shooting so I think that might be playing a part as well considering my inexperience before the break.

[Hi-Power Jack]

Yesterday's target looks a LOT better than the first target you posted

Congrats.

You're making progress.

Keep it up

[cjdaniel78]

Unfortunately, my range doesn't allow for 3 yard shooting, only 5 yard shooting. I think you're right with the forcing the shot again. I have to relearn to let the break of the shot surprise me. I just came back from a 2 month hiatus from shooting so I think that might be playing a part as well considering my inexperience before the break.

OK, this got long but I think it will help you, and please don't take it wrong or condescending. I promise you everything you are doing now, I have done. I'm just trying to save you some frustration and ammo.

You can do the same thing at 5 yards. You should be able to shoot one ragged hole out to at least 7 yards once you have the fundamentals down. Here is a little story that might help.

In 2013 I shot what I thought to be a lot of rounds in my carry gun (1K a year) and in typical Timmie fashion I was happy that I could get 2 inch group at 3 yards, most of the time. After I shot my first match in August 2014 I got serious and found my inner gamer. I knew first and foremost I had to be more accurate. I kept trying and trying until one day, after wasting tons of factory ammo and reading lots of advice, I figured it out. I shot one tiny, ragged hole at 3 yards. I put the gun down and mentally stepped away. I went over what I did and more importantly, what I didn't do that led to that result.

• I didn't look at the target. I had focused on the front sight so hard I could almost count the dust settling on it.
• I didn't jerk the trigger when the sights were perfect. I let the shot break when it broke and accepted the outcome.
• And most of all, I didn't look at the target between shots. This is a common mistake.

Often people break the shot and then look over the sights to see your handiwork. It is unnecessary. At 3 yards, I promise you the bullet hit the paper. And when trying to get the fundamentals worked out, the goal isn't a perfect bullseye anyway - the goal is the smallest group possible, wherever it may be, in a repeatable fashion. If the group is 2 inches low, so be it. You can adjust the sights later. You wouldn't want to set them for 3 yards anyway.

I have helped people with the same issue and you can always tell who has moved their sights to compensate for a flinch or trigger jerk because suddenly their gun starts shooting little groups to the right (for right handed shooters) of their point of aim.

I feel that for anyone starting out, or trying to truly get more accurate, the procedure below is the most important thing you can do, but thankfully it is also the quickest to learn. I recommend anyone with accuracy issues to take a Dot Torture Target to the range but only use the dots as the target, ignore the "actual" drill. Using both hands (freestyle) just shoot the smallest group possible in each of the ten circles, using five shots per group. If you do this twice (100 rounds) and actually focus and concentrate on each shot, I promise you'll start to understand the mechanics and it will all click. When you are finished, end the range session. 100 rounds then go home and let it gel for a couple of days. Go back to the range and try it again. You will find it is markedly easier. At that point you can start experimenting and working on other areas because you will have mental confidence in your capabilities and you will be better able to understand why you are throwing shots. The key will be to recognize when you need to stop and reset.

Full disclosure, the last time I classified was in October 2014 in IDPA. I got Sharpshooter in SSP, ESP and CDP. I haven't shot IDPA since and I now finish with the A class guys in local matches, but I have yet to get my initial USPSA classification, mainly because life has conspired to keep me from any legit USPSA matches this year. It's been outlaw only this year.

But I have used the technique I just described to help more then a few people that claimed to be bad shots. It is always the same. They know they can't, until they can. Then they stand there looking at the 1/2 inch hole they just made. So why three yards? Because it is easier to get immediate results, which builds confidence. I'm not the best shooter and I don't have all of the answers, but I do know this works.

Edit: Oh, and as you get better, you'll need less front sight focus as you'll better understand what you can get away with as an acceptable sight picture.

Edited August 2, 2016 by cjdaniel78

[SlvrDragon50]

Yesterday's target looks a LOT better than the first target you posted

Congrats.

You're making progress.

Keep it up

You're more optimistic than I am Thanks!

Unfortunately, my range doesn't allow for 3 yard shooting, only 5 yard shooting. I think you're right with the forcing the shot again. I have to relearn to let the break of the shot surprise me. I just came back from a 2 month hiatus from shooting so I think that might be playing a part as well considering my inexperience before the break.

OK, this got long but I think it will help you, and please don't take it wrong or condescending. I promise you everything you are doing now, I have done. I'm just trying to save you some frustration and ammo.

You can do the same thing at 5 yards. You should be able to shoot one ragged hole out to at least 7 yards once you have the fundamentals down. Here is a little story that might help.

In 2013 I shot what I thought to be a lot of rounds in my carry gun (1K a year) and in typical Timmie fashion I was happy that I could get 2 inch group at 3 yards, most of the time. After I shot my first match in August 2014 I got serious and found my inner gamer. I knew first and foremost I had to be more accurate. I kept trying and trying until one day, after wasting tons of factory ammo and reading lots of advice, I figured it out. I shot one tiny, ragged hole at 3 yards. I put the gun down and mentally stepped away. I went over what I did and more importantly, what I didn't do that led to that result.

• I didn't look at the target. I had focused on the front sight so hard I could almost count the dust settling on it.
• I didn't jerk the trigger when the sights were perfect. I let the shot break when it broke and accepted the outcome.
• And most of all, I didn't look at the target between shots. This is a common mistake.

Often people break the shot and then look over the sights to see your handiwork. It is unnecessary. At 3 yards, I promise you the bullet hit the paper. And when trying to get the fundamentals worked out, the goal isn't a perfect bullseye anyway - the goal is the smallest group possible, wherever it may be, in a repeatable fashion. If the group is 2 inches low, so be it. You can adjust the sights later. You wouldn't want to set them for 3 yards anyway.

I have helped people with the same issue and you can always tell who has moved their sights to compensate for a flinch or trigger jerk because suddenly their gun starts shooting little groups to the right (for right handed shooters) of their point of aim.

I feel that for anyone starting out, or trying to truly get more accurate, the procedure below is the most important thing you can do, but thankfully it is also the quickest to learn. I recommend anyone with accuracy issues to take a Dot Torture Target to the range but only use the dots as the target, ignore the "actual" drill. Using both hands (freestyle) just shoot the smallest group possible in each of the ten circles, using five shots per group. If you do this twice (100 rounds) and actually focus and concentrate on each shot, I promise you'll start to understand the mechanics and it will all click. When you are finished, end the range session. 100 rounds then go home and let it gel for a couple of days. Go back to the range and try it again. You will find it is markedly easier. At that point you can start experimenting and working on other areas because you will have mental confidence in your capabilities and you will be better able to understand why you are throwing shots. The key will be to recognize when you need to stop and reset.

Full disclosure, the last time I classified was in October 2014 in IDPA. I got Sharpshooter in SSP, ESP and CDP. I haven't shot IDPA since and I now finish with the A class guys in local matches, but I have yet to get my initial USPSA classification, mainly because life has conspired to keep me from any legit USPSA matches this year. It's been outlaw only this year.

But I have used the technique I just described to help more then a few people that claimed to be bad shots. It is always the same. They know they can't, until they can. Then they stand there looking at the 1/2 inch hole they just made. So why three yards? Because it is easier to get immediate results, which builds confidence. I'm not the best shooter and I don't have all of the answers, but I do know this works.

Edit: Oh, and as you get better, you'll need less front sight focus as you'll better understand what you can get away with as an acceptable sight picture.

Thanks for the tip. That's a really good idea with just using them as individual targets. So one of the things you said is something I really struggle with: "Often people break the shot and then look over the sights to see your handiwork." So the reason why I think I try to look at the target is to see if what I just did was "good" or not. Generally I can feel when I'm jerking the trigger, but sometimes I feel like I have a great trigger pull, and the hole is way off target. I definitely think it is relearning the skills I had earlier in the year though because I was shooting a lot better before.

This was my target back in May. The left targets are at 7 yards, and the other three targets are at 5 yards.

https://i.imgur.com/fOPfJFb.jpg

So do you think 50 rounds are enough to reestablish the fundamentals or is too much ammo just wasted getting used to shooting again? I've been shooting 50 rounds every 2 days or so, but I could definitely change up my habit to shoot 100 rounds every 3-4 days.

[cjdaniel78]

More ammo per session for fewer sessions. I shoot 200 once every 7-10 days. With a limit of 50 per session you are stopping too soon. You might be on the verge of a break-through. 200 rounds shot with total mental and visual focus will get you far.

You need to tell yourself that looking at any shot prior to the completion of the drill is meaningless. You have to view the drill as a whole. As you are shooting, remind yourself that looking at the target only makes your score worse because you lose your "zero".

Edited August 2, 2016 by cjdaniel78

[cjdaniel78]

What gun are you shooting and what's the trigger like? Skills are great than gear, but a crappy trigger will amplify errors.

Edited August 2, 2016 by cjdaniel78

[SlvrDragon50]

Awesome thanks. I'll modify my training routine now.

I am shooting a CZ-85C. The trigger has been polished with a fitted disconnector for minimal pre travel. Also has a CGW hammer. It's definitely not the gun