Any advantage with a Single Action Only?

[teros135]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

No, but if USPSA is about DVC, then all pistols that can make the power factor (major or minor) with factory loadings should be considered, IMO. That would open USPSA up to more people than letting a SAO into Production....Of course, it would also open a huge can of worms...

It was the can of worms I was thinking about.  We've got a pretty complex setup as it is,  but it works fairly well.  

[twodownzero]

On 7/1/2016 at 5:21 PM, BASE772 said:

I would say it depends on how competitive you want to be and skill level. IMO a striker fired or DA gun that shoots Major are competitive as long as you shoot them well. Several high level shooters shoot striker fired in Limited.

But was talking about Production. If someone showed up with a CZ SAO and wanted to shoot Production I wouldn't feel like they had an advantage over my DA/SA SP-01 or a P320. None.

If this is true, why not merge the Single Stack and Production divisions? 

[BASE772]

1 hour ago, twodownzero said:

If this is true, why not merge the Single Stack and Production divisions? 

Don't want to merge anything. Just wanted people's opinions if they think a SAO has an advanced in Production.  Was thinking of double stack SAO's.  I don't see one. Lots of striker fired guns with very good triggers. 

[rowdyb]

if you let me convert my sp01 to SAO and start 'cocked and locked' in production i'd absolutely do it and it would be an advantage.

and if you mixed major and minor in prod i'd absolutely start shooting major.

i like production as it is.

Edited November 25, 2016 by rowdyb

[Gooldylocks]

20 hours ago, rowdyb said:

if you let me convert my sp01 to SAO and start 'cocked and locked' in production i'd absolutely do it and it would be an advantage.

and if you mixed major and minor in prod i'd absolutely start shooting major.

i like production as it is.

I really don't think it is nearly as big of a deal as you are making it out to be, especially at the level that you are shooting at, i.e. high. The DA first shot isn't going to slow you down any compared to SAO. I don't think making it a free for all, you-can-use-anything division, but SS and Prod? They are on equal footing. The results would back that up. 

 

That being said, just leave the divisions alone.

[rowdyb]

the difference doesn't have to be big, it just has to be measurable. the title was "any" difference. to me, there is.

the timer measures to 1/100th of a second. if i think i can get a free 1/10th i'm gonna take it. i think the difference would be measured in tenths, not hundredths.

but yeah, kinda tired of the "but but but this gun in this division". it is or it isn't. run a different gun or run a different division, don't move the rules around.

[twodownzero]

22 hours ago, BASE772 said:

Don't want to merge anything. Just wanted people's opinions if they think a SAO has an advanced in Production.  Was thinking of double stack SAO's.  I don't see one. Lots of striker fired guns with very good triggers. 

This is not responsive to my question.  The primary differences between Production and Single Stack are the minor holster rule difference for men, the reload "target" being smaller, and the single action trigger.  If we are going to allow single action guns in Production, why bother with Single Stack at all?

This year more than ever since I've been shooting this sport (12+ years now), people have really lost sight of what the purpose of creating different competitive divisions was for.  The purpose of divisions isn't to create a safe space for everyone to play.  The purpose was to create a rigid, slowly (if ever) changing set of equipment rules so that equipment would be broken down by division and skills by class.  Anything that doesn't fit the divisions we have goes to Open (within reason).

If you want to shoot your single action CZ, we have no less than three divisions where it's legal (Open, Limited, and L10).  Why would we change the production rules to include a gun that was specifically excluded by the existing rules, when that gun has three other places to play?

Since when did every gun have to have a place where it "best fit" the rules?

In 2008, I shot Limited with my M&P 9 Pro because it was not yet on the Production list.  It was identical in virtually every way to approved guns, minus 3/4" of barrel.  You would be hard pressed to find me posting on here to change the production rules regarding the list and the number that had to be made before it was approved.  Today, 8 years later, the M&P 9 Pro is among the top three most popular plastic guns in Production.  And every gun made by a major manufacturer that otherwise fits the production rules will be on the list soon enough.  There was no need for a rule change.

To answer your original question, yes, a non-hinged, 1/8" travel, light, single action trigger is a substantial advantage.  You'd be hard pressed to find any human being--even Bob Vogel--who couldn't shoot a SA gun faster and more accurately than any (production-legal) striker fired one.  That doesn't mean that it's a huge advantage, but it's certainly one that you could empirically verify with a timer and a shooter.  That's why SA guns are not allowed in Production.  It's also why certain trigger modifications are banned in Production (moving the pivot point).  Yes it's an advantage.  SA makes everyone into a rock star.

[cnote]

Edited November 26, 2016 by cnote

[BASE772]

49 minutes ago, twodownzero said:

 

To answer your original question, yes, a non-hinged, 1/8" travel, light, single action trigger is a substantial advantage.  You'd be hard pressed to find any human being--even Bob Vogel--who couldn't shoot a SA gun faster and more accurately than any (production-legal) striker fired one.  That doesn't mean that it's a huge advantage, but it's certainly one that you could empirically verify with a timer and a shooter.  That's why SA guns are not allowed in Production.  It's also why certain trigger modifications are banned in Production (moving the pivot point).  Yes it's an advantage.  SA makes everyone into a rock star.

This is more what I was looking for. Thank you sir.