Match results not uploaded to USPSA?

[mreed911]

Only curious - are full match results uploaded to USPSA? I can see my classifier scores but no match results, even from Level II matches. Is that a feature under development?

Yes, I can go look each up in Practiscore if they're there, but I'm wondering why it doesn't show on my USPSA classification page?

[Trent1k1]

Good chance your club didnt upload the match to USPSA, only the classifier.

It is 2 separate operations.

Edited June 23, 2016 by Trent1k1

[mreed911]

Ah. I've never had any uploaded, but that makes sense. I would have expected a Level II to upload. I guess I'll need to track progress on my own in Excel. Anyone have a good template for this? No sense re-inventing the wheel.

[Southpaw]

I thought all major match results were on the USPSA site. Which match can't you find the results for? You can find all major matches by clicking "Match Results" and then at the bottom choosing "Major Matches" and the year from the dropdowns (they should already be selected as default).

ETA: when you click "Match Results" do you see no matches listed? I've got a ton of matches there going back about two years (you need to be logged in to see them).

Edited June 24, 2016 by Southpaw

[mreed911]

Zero matches but the highest I've shot is a Level II so far.

[9x45]

Even Level I match results are uploaded, that is, if the club actually uploads them. Of course, it has to be a USPSA member club, not an outlaw match. Which club did you shoot at that didn't upload the results?

[mreed911]

None of my APSC matches upload. Classifiers, yes, but it looks like they're not uploading match results. No biggie... I see a few from other clubs now.

[CHA-LEE]

All clubs are required to upload the full match results to the USPSA website. If your club isn't doing that then contact them. Or contact your section coordinator.

Clubs get lazy and only post the match results to practiscore then pay their activity fee to USPSA so the classifier counts. If they are generating the classifier activity report, uploading it and paying the fees then posting the reaults on USPSA is only 20 seconds of additional work. I have no idea why a club wouldn't post their match results on the USPSA website other than being lazy. They are already paying the USPSA fees for the match so why not post the match results there as well?

[Thomas H]

They are already paying the USPSA fees for the match so why not post the match results there as well?

Because even 20 seconds of extra work is "extra work" and thus worth a lot of complaints until you make them do it enough to get used to it.

ALSO, some clubs, if they aren't running a classifier, will sometimes not report their activity, and then their Section Coordinator gets the fun of attempting to make them do what they are supposed to do. Which is not fun.

[Nik Habicht]

All clubs are required to upload the full match results to the USPSA website. If your club isn't doing that then contact them. Or contact your section coordinator.

Clubs get lazy and only post the match results to practiscore then pay their activity fee to USPSA so the classifier counts. If they are generating the classifier activity report, uploading it and paying the fees then posting the reaults on USPSA is only 20 seconds of additional work. I have no idea why a club wouldn't post their match results on the USPSA website other than being lazy. They are already paying the USPSA fees for the match so why not post the match results there as well?

Can you point me to the actual requirement to post full match results to USPSA -- I must have missed something.......

....and even if that's a requirement, it's not possible to post FULL match results to USPSA as the website won't allow the posting of overall scores, even though EZW has been capable of generating them for decades. In my neck of the woods there's demand for the overall, so a number of clubs upload classifier results to USPSA, and then post ACTUAL FULL match results to their own website.....

[Thomas H]

Can you point me to the actual requirement to post full match results to USPSA -- I must have missed something.......

....and even if that's a requirement, it's not possible to post FULL match results to USPSA as the website won't allow the posting of overall scores, even though EZW has been capable of generating them for decades. In my neck of the woods there's demand for the overall, so a number of clubs upload classifier results to USPSA, and then post ACTUAL FULL match results to their own website.....

I note that technically, full match results ARE able to be posted to USPSA....because the other that you speak of (overall) isn't an official match score (as you know). The fact that lots of people on a local level like seeing it doesn't change anything from a USPSA perspective, so indeed from the perspective of USPSA, "full" match results are of course able to be posted to USPSA.

I note that my local club also likes to see overall scores, which is why we provide links to both the results on USPSA.org and results on Practiscore.com.

As for the requirement to post match results to USPSA:

From the Bylaws:

4.8 Club Membership:

A club membership requires that the club:

i.) consist of 10 or more individual members of the corporation at the time of application,

ii.) make formal application to the corporation,

iii.) agree to conduct the minimum number of corporation approved contests annually as established from time-to-time by the Board of Directors under the rules and guidelines as published by the corporation,

iv.) render the published results, together with appropriate activity fees due the corporation from said contests, to the corporation within 30 days of match date, and

v.) pay the annual affiliation dues as established from time to time by the Board of Directors.

Affiliated Clubs are autonomous in nature and are specifically allowed to conduct club business according to their own local, State and Federal laws, club bylaws, and/or business practices. Commingling of clubs for the purpose of avoiding affiliation dues is specifically prohibited.

And even more fun, for Section Coordinators:

12.4 Duties of Section Coordinator:

The Section Coordinator is responsible for insuring that every activity within the Section represents the best traditions and standards of USPSA. The Section Coordinator supports the development of new shooters and new clubs by providing information, support, and guidance.

The Section Coordinator shall

i.) actively promote the corporation and its policies, rules, ideals and concepts,

ii.) keep the Area Director and national office informed of activity within his Section,

iii.) promote the establishment of, and participation in, his Area Championship and the USPSA National Championships,

iv.) require of his clubs that a copy of the results for all corporation approved matches be made available to him,

v.) see that all such results and their attendant activity fee are forwarded to the national office within 30 days of match date,

vi.) recommend clubs for affiliation or disaffiliation,

vii.) endeavor to personally visit each club in his Section at least once a year during the production of a match,

viii.) actively assist new clubs in forming and becoming affiliated with the corporation, and

ix.) implement and supervise membership growth programs.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm aware of that piece -- 4.8 IV that is........

That's been in existence for quite some time, and seems to have been satisfied by uploading classifier scores and paying for activity fees. My guess is that the bylaw predates the internet; once upon a time match scores were published in Front Sight.......

That's not a requirement to upload to USPSA either -- one could satisfy that, if USPSA were serious about it -- by printing the overall results and mailing them in.....

.....and they're publicly accessible so I'd say the requirement is met the moment they're published on the club's website.

As far as 12.4 goes -- part IV is fulfilled by my member clubs; part V we occasionally run into trouble with, but usually a phone call or email gets things resolved. Sometimes stuff happens in volunteer's lives....

[Thomas H]

That's been in existence for quite some time, and seems to have been satisfied by uploading classifier scores and paying for activity fees. My guess is that the bylaw predates the internet; once upon a time match scores were published in Front Sight.......

That's not a requirement to upload to USPSA either -- one could satisfy that, if USPSA were serious about it -- by printing the overall results and mailing them in.....

I'm not arguing about whether it is done or not. (Obviously, it often isn't.) I was just saying that it was required. Whether or not that requirement is being enforced is a separate thing.

And true, that isn't a requirement to upload specifically---but if they aren't mailing in results, then uploading is their other valid choice. (And they obviously aren't mailing in results.)

Looking at it, the idea that uploading classifier scores and paying activity fees satisfies this requirement is pretty silly, because those simply aren't results.

I'm not arguing where this bylaw originally came from, either---I agree where it came from.

This doesn't change what it says. (And considering uploading results takes an extra 20 seconds and a file that Practiscore already makes, I don't really understand why people don't do it.)

.....and they're publicly accessible so I'd say the requirement is met the moment they're published on the club's website.

As far as 12.4 goes -- part IV is fulfilled by my member clubs; part V we occasionally run into trouble with, but usually a phone call or email gets things resolved. Sometimes stuff happens in volunteer's lives....

I agree that "published on the club's website" would suffice. Of course, some clubs don't have a website, and instead email results to shooters, or just post them on their bulletin board...interestingly enough, I think my smallest club is the one that consistently immediately posts results to USPSA, and one of my bigger clubs is MUCH more of a problem regarding correctly handling its activities.

Having had some discussions with people, I know of issues with part V from various clubs. "Oh, that was just a league match with a couple of shooters" is my favorite excuse, when they were talking about 7 matches over 3 months with a total of 71 shooters...

[CHA-LEE]

In the end it comes down to this.....If the match staff is too lazy to do the job properly then its time to change out the match staff. We all know running matches is a thankless job that is run by volunteers, but I see far too many match staff leverage the "I am just a volunteer" excuse for not getting the job done. Get the job done or pass off the job to someone who will.

Edited July 25, 2016 by CHA-LEE