Acsr Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Shot in a match a while back, shooter was in the course of fire and while sprinting from one spot to another tripped on his own feet and slipping on gravel fell, knocking over a barricade, he never broke the 180, but ro stopped the stage and gave him a re shoot, was curious if that was a legit ruling, or being friends influenced the ro decision? Barricade that was affected did not open up any ports for a advantage on the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I would think that kind of situation would be covered under REF...unless the shooter did it on purpose to get a reshoot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Sorry what is the REF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkm Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Range Equipment Failure... I have had it happen to me at a Level II before and was given a re-shoot due to a REF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I wouldn't stop a shooter for that either unless he violated a rule. I have seen numerous shooters charge a barricade and knock it over etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 That is what I was wondering being shooter caused, kind of a bonus, I guess if your having a bad stage knock some thing over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 4.6 Range Equipment Failure and Other Issues 4.6.1 Range equipment must present the challenge fairly and equitably to all competitors. Range equipment failure includes, the displacement of paper targets, the premature activation of metal or moving targets, the failure to reset moving targets or steel targets, the malfunction of mechanically or electrically operated equipment, and the failure of props such as openings, ports, and barriers. 4.6.1.1 The declaration and/or use of any loaded (see Appendix A3) or unloaded firearm as “range equipment” is prohibited. 4.6.2 A competitor who is unable to complete a course of fire due to range equipment failure, or if a metal or moving target was not reset prior to his attempt at a course of fire, must be required to reshoot the course of fire after corrective actions have been taken. 4.6.3 Chronic malfunction of equipment in a course of fire may result in the removal of that stage from the match results (see Rule 2.3.4). 2.2.3 Barriers – Must be constructed in the following manner: 2.2.3.1 They must be high enough and strong enough to serve the intended purpose. 2.2.3.2 They should include Fault Lines projecting rearward at ground level from the side edges. 2.2.3.3 Unless otherwise specified in the written stage briefing, all such barriers, walls, vision barriers and snow fence barriers will be considered to go from the ground to the height as constructed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 Hey that clarifies, thanks a bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 That is what I was wondering being shooter caused, kind of a bonus, I guess if your having a bad stage knock some thing over. IMO people who would do that would always be having a bad stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 That is what I was wondering being shooter caused, kind of a bonus, I guess if your having a bad stage knock some thing over. IMO people who would do that would always be having a bad stage. Or a bad match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted June 14, 2016 Author Share Posted June 14, 2016 I was being sarcastic, re shoots are not my thing, I don't believe in paying to shoot a classifier over either, happens to much at times, you shoot what you shoot and you don't throw a fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 No reshoot needed if a shooter charges a low barricade and knocks it down and shoots targets at the same time. Sure the barricade should withstand anything but we all know they don't all the time. A fast, big guy who causes a barricade to collapse while shooting targets is an anomaly . If he didn't gain an advantage, I.e. The targets were shot before everything hit the ground, there is no need to reshoot it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acsr Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 I agree, but in this situation it was advantageous for the shooter who fell, who would have to get up and continue the course of fire with the sunless adding to the overall stage time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 If the fallen barricade did not prevent him from continuing to engage the remaining targets, no reshoot is required. If the barricade had a window needed to engage a target he had not yet engaged, REF and reshoot required. Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 I've seen people slow down, stop shooting and look at what fell...If their run would be different if the barrier did not fall they should reshoot. In the post it's a tougher call since the fall precedes knocking over the barrier. If loosing the barrier didn't provide an advantage, or a disadvantage I wouldn't stop him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Remember, as with all rules posts on the forum, all situations are different and all we can do is speculate on how things went down. Rules are rules but obviously not all incidents are cut and dried. This is why we discuss them and not always just cut and paste a page from the rule book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkm Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. That is not a true statement in all cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhall Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. That is not a true statement in all cases. The only time I can think of where a reshoot is optional is for RO interference. The reshoot is offered before any scoring or timer is seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 15, 2016 Share Posted June 15, 2016 Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. That is not a true statement in all cases. The only time I can think of where a reshoot is optional is for RO interference. The reshoot is offered before any scoring or timer is seen. EXCELLENT! A shooter that actually reads the rule book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. That is not a true statement in all cases. The only time I can think of where a reshoot is optional is for RO interference. The reshoot is offered before any scoring or timer is seen. I was thinking the same thing. Saw this happen at a very recent match. Shooter was lightly bumped by the RO as the timer went off (shooter moved his head back just as RO was holding timer close to his head). He was offered a re-shoot before targets were scored or time revealed. he wisely chose to score as shot, the re-shoot gods are angry, vengeful gods. they will mess you up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mhall Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 Reshoots are not offered. It's either required or its not. That is not a true statement in all cases. The only time I can think of where a reshoot is optional is for RO interference. The reshoot is offered before any scoring or timer is seen. EXCELLENT! A shooter that actually reads the rule book! Took the RO class in April... I do study the rulebook tho too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I wouldn't stop a shooter for that either unless he violated a rule. I have seen numerous shooters charge a barricade and knock it over etc Really? Does your answer change if it was a wall with a port in it? I see stuff like this and wonder why the barricade was able to move at all? REF, repair the stage, fix the deficit in initial construction, reshoot.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I wouldn't stop a shooter for that either unless he violated a rule. I have seen numerous shooters charge a barricade and knock it over etcReally? Does your answer change if it was a wall with a port in it? I see stuff like this and wonder why the barricade was able to move at all? REF, repair the stage, fix the deficit in initial construction, reshoot.... I made other posts that would answer your question if you looked. EvenThough ports aren't typically incorporated into a low barricade, Do you really think I would not reshoot a guy who knocked one down and shot everything instead of visiting ports like everybody else had to? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I wouldn't stop a shooter for that either unless he violated a rule. I have seen numerous shooters charge a barricade and knock it over etcReally? Does your answer change if it was a wall with a port in it? I see stuff like this and wonder why the barricade was able to move at all? REF, repair the stage, fix the deficit in initial construction, reshoot.... Most of the cases I saw involved a squirrelly shooter who tripped or lost his footing as he was engaging over a low barricade. Didn't speed his time or give him an advantage in any way.Wood screws and plywood can only withstand so much and these were flukes that didn't jeopardize competitive equity . Now, if it's a barricade that is obviously going to be expected to be assaulted by everybody as a matter of course you build it like a brick shithouse and keep it maintained as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted June 16, 2016 Share Posted June 16, 2016 I wouldn't stop a shooter for that either unless he violated a rule. I have seen numerous shooters charge a barricade and knock it over etcReally? Does your answer change if it was a wall with a port in it? I see stuff like this and wonder why the barricade was able to move at all? REF, repair the stage, fix the deficit in initial construction, reshoot.... Most of the cases I saw involved a squirrelly shooter who tripped or lost his footing as he was engaging over a low barricade. Didn't speed his time or give him an advantage in any way.Wood screws and plywood can only withstand so much and these were flukes that didn't jeopardize competitive equity . Now, if it's a barricade that is obviously going to be expected to be assaulted by everybody as a matter of course you build it like a brick shithouse and keep it maintained as such This was built by typical USPSA prop builders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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