Using two different grip panels in USPSA Production

[Nemesis Lead]

I was considering running two different grip panels on the same CZ (a flat VZ grip on one side and a LOK grip with a palm swell on the other side).

BOTH profiles are factory profiles, but can you run two different panels on the same gun? I don't see a rule prohibiting this, but wanted to see if others had gone down this road.

[d_striker]

I use the rubber grip on the left and the thin aluminum CZC on the right.

Nothing in the rules that I know of that prohibits this.

[Nik Habicht]

I use the rubber grip on the left and the thin aluminum CZC on the right.

Nothing in the rules that I know of that prohibits this.

I'd look hard at item 22.2 -- which seems to disallow a change from factory profile. The test might be "Does anyone ship a handgun similarly equipped? Does anyone ship grips such as these i.e. an uneven set?" If the answers are no, and you can't point to something that specifically allows the change in the rules, you might get moved to open.....

[d_striker]

I use the rubber grip on the left and the thin aluminum CZC on the right.

Nothing in the rules that I know of that prohibits this.

I'd look hard at item 22.2 -- which seems to disallow a change from factory profile. The test might be "Does anyone ship a handgun similarly equipped? Does anyone ship grips such as these i.e. an uneven set?" If the answers are no, and you can't point to something that specifically allows the change in the rules, you might get moved to open.....

"Factory profile" refers to the front to back dimension. Troy has commented several times that you can actually add side to side width to a production gun as it does not change the profile.

Secondly, both grips are factory options so it's hardly changing the factory profile even if it included side to side dimensions which it does not.

[kneelingatlas]

Nik, read D4, 21.4:. "Replacement grip panels are allowed provided they do not extend below the butt of the gun to form a make-shift magwell."

"See 22.2, below, for specifics with regard to modifications on revolver grips."

I say it's legal.

Edited May 19, 2016 by kneelingatlas

[Nik Habicht]

I'm not arguing for that reading, just saying I'd have a hard time against it, if sitting on an arbitration panel.....

[kneelingatlas]

22.2 applies to specifically to revolvers. Replacement grip panels are specifically allowed, they do not extend below the but of the gun, nor change the profile.

[Nemesis Lead]

I use the rubber grip on the left and the thin aluminum CZC on the right.

Nothing in the rules that I know of that prohibits this.

Any issues at a major match?

[d_striker]

I use the rubber grip on the left and the thin aluminum CZC on the right.

Nothing in the rules that I know of that prohibits this.

Any issues at a major match?

Nope.

[Nemesis Lead]

Thanks for the good commentary, guys. I may send an email over to NROI and see what comes back.

[d_striker]

I'm not arguing for that reading, just saying I'd have a hard time against it, if sitting on an arbitration panel.....

You're telling me you'd rule against having two different factory grips on a production gun???

[d_striker]

Thanks for the good commentary, guys. I may send an email over to NROI and see what comes back.

That's always the best thing to do. Please post Troy's response when you here from him.

[Nemesis Lead]

Thanks for the good commentary, guys. I may send an email over to NROI and see what comes back.

That's always the best thing to do. Please post Troy's response when you here from him.

I just sent the email. I will let you guys know what comes back!

[Rangerdug]

I'm not arguing for that reading, just saying I'd have a hard time against it, if sitting on an arbitration panel.....

You're telling me you'd rule against having two different factory grips on a production gun???

Yes I would, only because it's you Dom, and I know you are milking every drip out ofthat rule. It didn't come out of the box like that. That is why the CZ's need to come off the production list.

[d_striker]

I'm not arguing for that reading, just saying I'd have a hard time against it, if sitting on an arbitration panel.....

You're telling me you'd rule against having two different factory grips on a production gun???

Yes I would, only because it's you Dom, and I know you are milking every drip out ofthat rule. It didn't come out of the box like that. That is why the CZ's need to come off the production list.

Nice troll.

Mods-ban this guy.

[Rangerdug]

I'm not arguing for that reading, just saying I'd have a hard time against it, if sitting on an arbitration panel.....

You're telling me you'd rule against having two different factory grips on a production gun???

Yes I would, only because it's you Dom, and I know you are milking every drip out ofthat rule. It didn't come out of the box like that. That is why the CZ's need to come off the production list.

Nice troll.

Mods-ban this guy.

is that really necessary? Seriously though, I stick to the CZ part ( particularly the 75). I can't shoot production with a 2011, correct? Why? Yet, your very nice, but tricked out CZ is at this time completely legal. I do feel that it defeats the purpose of the division. It becomes a slippery slope. I don't blame you, I actually have no issue with the fact you run the gun that gives you the most advantage. That is gaming the game. I absolutely salute that! Edited May 19, 2016 by Rangerdug

[d_striker]

Nice troll.

Mods-ban this guy.

is that really necessary? Seriously though, I stick to the CZ part ( particularly the 75). I can't shoot production with a 2011, correct? Why? Yet, your very nice, but a tricked out CZ is at this time completely legal. I do feel that it defeats the purpose of the division. It becomes a slippery slope. I don't blame you, I actually have no issue with the fact you run the gun that gives you the most advantage. That is gaming the game. I absolutely salute that!

There are no single action guns allowed in Production, period. That is why you can't shoot your 2011 or 1911 in Production.

So what you're saying is that Production should be a striker fired gun only division. Using your rationale, you'd have to get rid of all DA/SA guns that are capable of having a good trigger which is pretty much any DA/SA gun.

We should probably just make a new provisional division for DA/SA guns.

[GrumpyOne]

Watch the attitudes and get back on topic...

Grumpyone Benos forum mod

[d_striker]

Watch the attitudes and get back on topic...

Grumpyone Benos forum mod

I know this guy in real life. I was only kidding. Sorry.

[IronArcher]

If the different panels (when used as a set) are legal, then they are legal if you mix and match them.
What prevents someone from putting 2-3 layers of grip tape on one panel but not the other?
Same thing. The grips are legal or they are not, nothing in the rules suggests grips must be changed in matching sets.

[motosapiens]

is that really necessary? Seriously though, I stick to the CZ part ( particularly the 75). I can't shoot production with a 2011, correct? Why? Yet, your very nice, but a tricked out CZ is at this time completely legal. I do feel that it defeats the purpose of the division. It becomes a slippery slope. I don't blame you, I actually have no issue with the fact you run the gun that gives you the most advantage. That is gaming the game. I absolutely salute that!

Yep, it's a HUGE advantage to not have to shoot a crappy plastic glock. That's the ONLY reason that ben (an inferior shooter) snuck past nils and bob at nats last year.

If we just had a glock-only provisional division I bet glocks could be comepetitive.

[Nemesis Lead]

Looks like Ranger and d_striker know each other and are just joking around but.....I would say that one of the great side effects of USPSA is that is advances gun design everywhere. All the manufacturers have competitive shooting offerings.

I think the slippery slope comes from banning guns that are considered "too good."

I run a CZ 75 AccuShadow. I love it. I used to shoot a Glock and I think the AccuShadow added about 3 points onto my USPSA classification. The designers certainly designed the AccuShadow for USPSA, but the gun could easily sit the holster of an LEO (if he wanted to lug that hunk of metal around).

If you ban Accushadows/Tanfos/etc., guys will just get SP01s and trick out the internals until the guns are close to the Accushadows. You are right back where you started. And manufacturers will get angry at USPSA because they won't want to invest in R & D and put out an SKU that meets USPSA Production standards only to have the gun banned because someone thought it was too good.

The Indian is way more important than the Arrow. I am at the 89.82% in USPSA Production. 3% of that is my AccuShadow. The other 86.82% is me.

[motosapiens]

I am at the 89.82% in USPSA Production. 3% of that is my AccuShadow. The other 86.82% is me.

so you agree with me that the only reason nils or bob didn't win last year was because of their crappy guns? You should email them to set them straight.

seriously... i also like a metal gun, but watching shane coley shoot a glock limited gun last weekend makes me suspect that it's more of a personal preference thing than anything else. Lots of guys kick azz with plastic guns.

[d_striker]

I am at the 89.82% in USPSA Production. 3% of that is my AccuShadow. The other 86.82% is me.

so you agree with me that the only reason nils or bob didn't win last year was because of their crappy guns? You should email them to set them straight.

seriously... i also like a metal gun, but watching shane coley shoot a glock limited gun last weekend makes me suspect that it's more of a personal preference thing than anything else. Lots of guys kick azz with plastic guns.

Yup, Bob and Nils would have smoked Ben with the automatic 3% edge a metal DA/SA gun gives. What are they thinking?

Edited May 19, 2016 by d_striker

[Nik Habicht]

22.2 applies to specifically to revolvers. Replacement grip panels are specifically allowed, they do not extend below the but of the gun, nor change the profile.

Nonsense. There's nothing in 22.2 that states it applies to wheel guns only; rather there is language specifically stating that it does NOT apply to revolvers.