MR_not-so_INCREDIBLE Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 About the only thing I lock is my weak-hand wrist. It is cammed in to "spring load" the gun..which should help in recoil. (Hello, new guy here ) Errr, could you try to explain this to me please? Anything to help with recoil sounds good, but I've really no idea what you're talking about . Thanks! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted April 24, 2005 Share Posted April 24, 2005 (edited) Camming the weak hand forward means tilting your wrist on the weak hand so that your fingers, when open, actually point down. The "camming" refers to the effect this position has on recoil management. Most people, when extending their arm forward, will naturally extend the fingers of the hand out in the same direction. From this position, if you close your weak hand fingers around the stocks of a pistol (or, in a two handed stance, around your strong side hand), the weak hand grip can wiggle in the vertical plane, both up and down. As the slide of the pistol comes back in recoil, the impulse will break the wrist position up and back easily. Aggressively tilting the fingers down on the weak hand when acquiring the firing grip, while feeling unnatural at first, has a few advantages. First and most pertinent here is that, in recoil, the impulse of the slide coming back over the hands will break the weak hand wrist position less, because the forward and downward wrist position means that the hand must not only be driven back, but up. Second, at least with my anatomy, this position raises my weak side arm higher/closer to the bore axis, and at the same time rotates my weak side elbow joint out a bit, which for me means absorbing the recoil into my upper body in a more consistent fashion. Third, the cammed position is at the extreme end of my range of motion for my weak hand, and lets me recover the firing position more consistently by snapping back forward as far as the wrist will go, without having to stop somewhere short of that and then over or undershooting the firing position. At least, that's how I see it... And oh, BTW, welcome to the forums. Kevin C. Edited April 25, 2005 by kevin c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_not-so_INCREDIBLE Posted April 25, 2005 Author Share Posted April 25, 2005 Oh Ummm, could you maybe provide a pic or something? I'm definitely a little slow to catch on sometimes, and in this case I'm having a tough time picturing what you've described. I'll bet it's easy to do once you've seen it done, but until then... Thanks for bearing with me! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Buy Brians book He has some good pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_not-so_INCREDIBLE Posted April 25, 2005 Author Share Posted April 25, 2005 Ordered the book this weekend, so it's somewhere between here and there Guess I'll just have to go wait out by the mailbox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Here is a thread that show some pictures of me on the glock...it might prove helpful: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ic=7857&hl=grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_not-so_INCREDIBLE Posted April 25, 2005 Author Share Posted April 25, 2005 AH HA! Now I get it! Thank you sir, that was very helpful. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgg Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I've been experiencing trouble with my supporting hand loosing grip during recoil. The gun and my strong hand just rotates out of my well cammed left hand. I must reaquire my grip between rounds or I will lose control of the gun. Sometimes this happens after the first round, sometimes later depending on how tired I am or how sweaty my hands are. I'm concerned that I'm doing something wrong as this is cleary not supposed to happen. My grip on the G23 is just as Flexmoney describes in his pics, my hand is well "cammed", 60/40 pressure and I'm still plagued with this problem. Best strings I've shot have been while I force my wrist not to bend w/ recoil. I can only keep this up for a couple of rounds before my hand shakes. I might be answering my own question here, is this just a matter or wrist strength? I've put several hundred rnds of .40 through this G23 but still cant get a grip on it. Never happened with the lighter recoil of my Sig 9mm. I'm looking into some further training, but in the mean time any advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Grip tape should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgg Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Grip tape should help. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's not my strong hand slipping. It's my weak hand the comes unlocked from around my strong. Grip tape the back of my strong hand fingers would do the trick, however, it might leave a rash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I Progrip (sticky stuff) the back of my strong hand and my palms. Grip tape will help, because the meaty part of the weakhand does a lot of work holding "slick" Glocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgg Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 I appreciate the response. I see what you mean and I will try that. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 sgg, Yep, the meaty part of the palm of the weak-hand is where I want the grip tape. Also, you might jsut be trying to grip the gun too hard. I know that sounds backwards, but play around with it. You really can't stop the recoil...so, don't try to too hard. Ride with it some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Oh Ummm, could you maybe provide a pic or something? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, way too many words, I now realize. A picture (especially Flex's series of pictures) is worth a thousand words... yada yada.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgg Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Also, you might jsut be trying to grip the gun too hard. I know that sounds backwards, but play around with it. You really can't stop the recoil...so, don't try to too hard. Ride with it some. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thank you. I've given up on the death grip and put my attention on stiffening my wrist a bit. Now I don't tire as I did with so much tension in play and my gun and grip are under control. I'm sure I've only got part of the picture here but I'm working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 Please do yourself a favor and remember what Flex said. It has helped me tremendously! Last week while practicing at 15yds. I became aware of how violently my front sight jiggled and bounced after each shot. If you have ever seen a video of a c-more dot on an open gun when it is locked on a Bianchi baricade, and how it vibrates, that is kind of the way my front sight was looking to me. Naturally, I increased my grip pressure. It got worse. Finally after a few minutes of softening my grip, mostly on the strong hand, it stopped. When the slide came down out of recoil the front sight was dead calm. It is a very cool thing to see; almost relaxing. That one thing may take me somewhere one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgg Posted April 27, 2005 Share Posted April 27, 2005 I'll continue to experiment. I do believe Flexmoney speaks the truth and I need to find the balance that works. When shooting 9mm or any 1911 I never have a recoil problem. It's just this G23 thats showing up all my weaknesses. I've never shot a full size .40, but I'll bet the G22 is easier to get along with. Anybody else find the Glock 23 to be a hard gun to get used to? Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Sure. The G23 bucks like a bronco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 How curious, for some reason I've found the G23 to be easier to track than the G22... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 sgg, Stop "camming." That's the root of all your problems. You need to stop *trying* to keep the gun from recoiling and let the gun do the work. The gun is smarter than you are (at least mine is smarter than me). Let the gun do it's job. Driving a Glock is just like driving a big truck. Plant both hands firmly at 10 and 2 and drive the gun. I don't know where this "camming" stuff came from, but I think it's a bunch of baloney that will only serve to make your life more difficult. All it is going to do is create a strong differential between your strong and weak hands - which is exactly the antithesis of a solid grip. I also have to disagree about the griptape theory. Unless your grip is currently covered in vaseline, you should not need any type of grip product to manage the recoil. The grip tape *will* help in indexing and recoil recovery, but no amount of grip juju will make a poor grip technique good. Your hands are separating for reasons other than the absence of grip tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierruiggi Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I can't say I agree with all that Eric said in the above post, but I do agree that you must not fight the gun, just flow with it. Ironically you can return the gun faster to target (manage recoil and re index the gun) when you focus on the sights instead. Also, considering he sells TruGrip, a huge commendation for honesty to Eric for this: I also have to disagree about the griptape theory. Unless your grip is currently covered in vaseline, you should not need any type of grip product to manage the recoil. The grip tape *will* help in indexing and recoil recovery, but no amount of grip juju will make a poor grip technique good. Your hands are separating for reasons other than the absence of grip tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Sharp Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Forward pressure or lack thereof is usually at the root of grip issues as described. When the hands come apart or work their way apart after a few rounds, is usually the result of the shooter not "pushing" into the target. Forward pressure from both hands, starting at the toes and working up, will take care of the issue. As Flex noted, over-gripping with the support hand will actually cause more problems. Think about what happens when you squeeze a bar of soap tightly with your hand, it jumps right out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCNet Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Forward pressure or lack thereof is usually at the root of grip issues as described.When the hands come apart or work their way apart after a few rounds, is usually the result of the shooter not "pushing" into the target. Forward pressure from both hands, starting at the toes and working up, will take care of the issue. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Matt Burkett mentions using a forward pressure in his videos as well. I too am having a problem with my weak hand slipping as the gun recoils, and I think part of my problem is that I'm having a problem differentiating the positive pressure with just being tight. I hope to compete in my first IPSC match next month, but I'm fighting years of bad habits from general untrained plinking. Does anybody have any hints or tips for visualizing the meaning of positive pressure? Thanks, Roger N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 No, I'm not a GM, but I've watched a lot of people shoot who shoot like sh*t. The common denominator among all of the people I've seen is that every one of them was trying to "do" something. It's a lot easier to shoot when you're not trying to "do" anything. Just my uneducated opinion on the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 [ Does anybody have any hints or tips for visualizing the meaning of positive pressure? Thanks, Roger N. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes Be visual and watch the sights. Use a timer to verify if it is better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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