oddjob Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I've come to the conclusion its target to target (general rule) more than anything else correct?? If not ...what and the practice drill to help correct this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 It can be depending on the stage. Biggest place people lose time is in movement from position to position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I agree with Chris, it definetely depends on the stage. If it's just a regular stand-and-blast I'd say that transitions come in second in places where people lose time. First usually being the reload. Field courses IMO are all about refining your movement into the most efficient possible. El Prez's are great for practicing your transitions. Movement is easy enough to practice by setting up 2 or more shooting positions. Best bet is to ask a experienced shooter to watch and critique you during a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Dito on the above 2 posts. I just found out I myself take an average of 2 full seconds when leaving a position while shooting (don't you just hate it when you're doubting your last shot while you're running?) I do better shooting while setting up. Something to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 To paraphrase a pretty decent shooter, "It's not how fast you get there. It's how fast you get there ready to shoot." - Rob Leatham (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 9:45 am on Mar. 10, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grassy knoll Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 i did some work with steve russel a master class shooter on this and what he tried to teach me was exactly what ron said, getting to the shooting position quickly and being ready to shoot at the same time, there are shortcuts that the more experienced shooters take advantage of like shooting on the move and taking all the targets possible from one position there were also other tips that we went through and on the timer our target to target transitions could be cut in half if we accepted the minimum sight picture for the shot and called it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4444 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Little pearls of wisedom that have helped me...... Smooth = fast,,,,find the sight "get in a rythmn",,,,of finding the sight that is......double taps are generally going to be slower than a smooth rythmn (of finding the sight that is) Don't listen for or watch steel fall,,,,,focus on the sights and the squeeze,,,,the steel will fall, listening and watching will cost time. Shoot on the move wherever possible Make reloads on the move whenever possible,,,standing reloads on field courses are time eaters,,,,a good course design should allow you to find a place to reload on the move. Look at all the ways to shoot a stage, look for what wastes the least amount of motion. These may be things you've considered,,,,I didn't assume anything, they're just things that have helped me. H4444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevoro Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 I think the biggest time eater is target to target transition when they aren't just sitting there in the open. A lot of time is lost moving into and out of positions, mounting and unmounting the gun, etc. Most inexperienced shooters whill shuffle from side to side or take three different shooting positions to engage targets through one port. Each shift of the feet costs them 3/4 of a second. It is really important to get set up in a position where you have to shift your feet as little as possible to engage the targets you plan to take from that general position. I've seen it get really bad. One shooter that I know moved laterally a few feet to engage each wide open paper from a slightly new and head on position. Talk about wasting time! For example, you wouldn't want to set up where you can see all of a full paper target and only a sliver of steel behind a barrel. You have to shift your feet to engage the steel like that. Your hit factor will usually be higher if you set up to see a partial of the paper and all of the steel, as long as you don't shift your feet and you don't shoot worse than A, C or heaven forbid if your shooting minor C,C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 Just to go against the grain, I'm going to agree with the poster, with one caveat. The biggest time waster, UNTIL YOUR TECHNIQUE HAS IMPROVED, might very well be your transitions. When everything is running correctly, movement is the biggest waste, but for any new shooter who double-taps, the transitions are usually pretty awful. With proper technique, they should be nearly the same as your splits. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Most new shooters don't know to move their eyes to the next target first, and rotate eyes/pistol/shoulders all in one piece, keeping the sights lined up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showpro Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Little pearls of wisedom that have helped me......Smooth = fast,,,,find the sight "get in a rythmn",,,,of finding the sight that is......double taps are generally going to be slower than a smooth rythmn (of finding the sight that is) Don't listen for or watch steel fall,,,,,focus on the sights and the squeeze,,,,the steel will fall, listening and watching will cost time. Shoot on the move wherever possible Make reloads on the move whenever possible,,,standing reloads on field courses are time eaters,,,,a good course design should allow you to find a place to reload on the move. Look at all the ways to shoot a stage, look for what wastes the least amount of motion. These may be things you've considered,,,,I didn't assume anything, they're just things that have helped me. H4444 These are all great tips. Thanks. But in IDPA, I'm not sure I find many opportunities to reload on the move, given the use of cover rules. Any tips, there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebg3 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 What's IDPA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo23 Posted October 3, 2007 Share Posted October 3, 2007 What's IDPA? LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1911nm Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hey, it was a valid question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 (edited) But in IDPA, I'm not sure I find many opportunities to reload on the move, given the use of cover rules. Any tips, there? In IDPA, I think position to position time is STILL one of the biggest areas most shooters need to focus on. In USPSA/IPSC, just as Ron A pointed out w/ the RL quote, it's all about being ready to shoot as soon as you are in the next shooting position. It's much the same in IDPA. True, in IDPA you have to reload before leaving cover since you can't do it on the move, but when you get to the next position I watch most shooters litterally "slice the pie." They get to the wall/whatever, stand there, slowly leaning around until they see the target. It's easy to watch most shooters up to (and including a few) expert-classified shooters do this and you can count off one, two, even three seconds until they break the first shot. You should have an idea where that target is as you enter the position, and finish your movement in a position that lets you see the target while meeting the "cover" criteria. If you set yourself up properly, it's not significantly slower than if there were no cover rules. Since, as you mentioned, you can't RL on the move, it does put a little more emphasis on reload speed since you need to do the RL before you break cover. Target transitions, esp w/ cover, are also important. You only need 50% of your torso behind cover, so most of the time you should be able to lean out enough to see more targets than the one you are engaging (assuming they are not WAY far apart). This lets you shoot get your eyes on the next target w/o significantly moving your body. To be using cover so carefully that 100% of legs, 100% of torso, and all of your head except your dominate eye are behind cover will cause you to have to move your body position on each target just to see them and can turn a 0.2s transition into a 2.0s transition. The difference in body position required to accomplish this often be as little as a couple inches depending on how close the targets are. Hope that helps. -rvb (idpa gamer*) *gamer, NOT rule breaker! Edited January 2, 2008 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramas Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 For new shooter-do stage mental rehersal. It helped me alot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 2, 2008 Share Posted January 2, 2008 Wow...my response in this thread was dated nearly 5 years ago. Jesus... I have actually changed my mind a bit about how shooters lose time in a stage. From worst to least. Extra Shots / Not making your shots count (A Delta instead of an Alpha is literally just giving time to your competition) Entering and Exiting positions Movement Transitions Splits If your skill level is up to par and you are still having these problems....than chances are the problem is in your visualization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 3, 2008 Share Posted January 3, 2008 For new shooter-do stage mental rehersal. It helped me alot. I totally agree. Once you have a stage mentally mapped out and are comfortable with it, your mind has that much more room to address other issues. One little thing I like to do is know where the target is exactly so that when I get there the gun is in position to shoot. I'm referring to a target not visible until you arrive at a port or barricade, etc. I like to know what type of focus it will require, the height, the angle, etc. All this can done by having the stage visually/mentally mapped out. I see a lot of new shooters on seek and destroy missions. They spend a lot of time on the seek part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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