johnbu Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Doing many dry fire drills, to get the gross motions down and they seem to be helping. But, they mostly explicitly say "don't pull the trigger". When live firing, the gun is still just as twitchy as ever. I know, it's me yanking the trigger, the other fingers sympathetic flexing and my full body grand mal seizure flinch.... but aside from going broke live firing, what dry dry drills should I concentrate on? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Steve Anderson's First Book -- that's the title, right? -- explicitly tells you not to pull the trigger when you draw to a sight picture, because you'll be tempted to snatch the trigger before the buzzer goes off, whether or not you have an acceptable sight picture. On most other drills, you're expected to pull the trigger normally -- except that your trigger may be dead, or mostly dead, after the first (dry) shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 16, 2016 Author Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ok, so when actually LIVE firing I still snatch the trigger. I am not rich enough to fire a gazillion rounds of ammo. What anti-trigger snatch drills can I do to help with it economically via dry fire? It frustrating to practice and train just to miss as much (only quicker). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 What anti-trigger snatch drills can I do to help with it economically via dry fire?I did quite a bit of dry-fire without improving my terrible trigger-control, because I assumed multiple trigger pulls would be useless in dry fire. When I started working multiple trigger pulls on the same target -- Bill drills, even -- I immediately saw how much the front sight was squirming, and that was the first step toward fixing the problem. Also, you'll see more movement from poor trigger-control while shooting one-handed, at smaller targets, from a standstill, etc. If you have a heavy enough trigger, you can simply take up the slack over and over, without breaking the shot each time, so you're not constantly re-racking the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 It's your grip. Grip the gun like it owes you money. Steady-state, maximum grip pressure eliminates the tendency to milk the gun down in the firing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindAsABat Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... +1 This ^^^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Donald Posted April 17, 2016 Share Posted April 17, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... This +2 Ben has the dry fire drills figured out. Had a statement made at a class I was in that it takes 250,000 rounds of live ammo for a person to make Grand Master. Ben made it to Grand Master in about 8,000 rounds of live ammo fired. Now some of this may just be Ben's natural talent, but he figured something out that many others had not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted April 18, 2016 Share Posted April 18, 2016 I never had the problem because I kept the trigger pulled until I was ready to fire my next shot. Then I go to the reset and pull again. Doesn't help if it goes off the first time before you want it to, but once it's back, don't let it back forward until you need to shoot. The trigger on my M&P is 28oz and I've never had it go off when I didn't want it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... Details? Just point at a wall, pull, repeat until smooth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 That's pretty much it. Don't focus on anything or any point on the wall, just focus on the sight alignment while dry firing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 19, 2016 Author Share Posted April 19, 2016 Did it, strong side thumb is still tapping out the rhythm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted April 19, 2016 Share Posted April 19, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... Details? Just point at a wall, pull, repeat until smooth? Why don't you buy his book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ... Details? Just point at a wall, pull, repeat until smooth? There's a little more to the drill than that. Start with your finger lightly on the trigger, trigger NOT prepped. Set the timer to random start. On the beep, pull the trigger as soon as you can, before the beep ends (about .3s), without disturbing the sight alignment at all. The sight alignment does not necessarily have to be perfect, but it shouldn't move at all when the trigger breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ...Details? Just point at a wall, pull, repeat until smooth? Why don't you buy his book? I have two of his, but haven't "clicked" with any drills that address the sympathetic twitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 Ben Stoeger's White Wall Fundamentals drill is your answer ...Details? Just point at a wall, pull, repeat until smooth? There's a little more to the drill than that. Start with your finger lightly on the trigger, trigger NOT prepped. Set the timer to random start. On the beep, pull the trigger as soon as you can, before the beep ends (about .3s), without disturbing the sight alignment at all. The sight alignment does not necessarily have to be perfect, but it shouldn't move at all when the trigger breaks. Will try that! But my reaction time makes sleepy sloths look fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 Then you get to work on two things at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffkopf Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I find that pushing with my firing hand and pulling with my support hand helps me lock everything up nice and tight so the muzzle doesn't flip as much and the finger doesn't twitch as much. The other thing is really focusing on a surprise break if the trigger and making sure that you trap the trigger to the rear so that when you take your follow up shots, they are just very small movements to reset the trigger and fire again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 20, 2016 Author Share Posted April 20, 2016 I find that pushing with my firing hand and pulling with my support hand helps me lock everything up nice and tight so the muzzle doesn't flip as much and the finger doesn't twitch as much. The other thing is really focusing on a surprise break if the trigger and making sure that you trap the trigger to the rear so that when you take your follow up shots, they are just very small movements to reset the trigger and fire again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's actually the strong hand thumb dancing in time to the trigger finger somba. The other fingers probably are dancing too, but I can watch the thumb hopping around. Quite distracting actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDMFR Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 I find that pushing with my firing hand and pulling with my support hand helps me lock everything up nice and tight so the muzzle doesn't flip as much and the finger doesn't twitch as much. The other thing is really focusing on a surprise break if the trigger and making sure that you trap the trigger to the rear so that when you take your follow up shots, they are just very small movements to reset the trigger and fire again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's actually the strong hand thumb dancing in time to the trigger finger somba. The other fingers probably are dancing too, but I can watch the thumb hopping around. Quite distracting actually. What grip are you using? Can you post a picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted April 20, 2016 Share Posted April 20, 2016 (edited) Is your thumb just sticking out into space? Have you tried gripping the pistol with it? Edited April 20, 2016 by TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 21, 2016 Author Share Posted April 21, 2016 I find that pushing with my firing hand and pulling with my support hand helps me lock everything up nice and tight so the muzzle doesn't flip as much and the finger doesn't twitch as much. The other thing is really focusing on a surprise break if the trigger and making sure that you trap the trigger to the rear so that when you take your follow up shots, they are just very small movements to reset the trigger and fire again. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk It's actually the strong hand thumb dancing in time to the trigger finger somba. The other fingers probably are dancing too, but I can watch the thumb hopping around. Quite distracting actually.What grip are you using? Can you post a picture? Thumbs forward, left wrist rotated forward so the left thumb is inline with the forearm bones. Right thumb rides the safety. Pretty standard.'ll see about a picture. Might not get to it right away, prepping for a boy scout weekend today, but will try! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelsonAK Posted April 21, 2016 Share Posted April 21, 2016 I'm curious as to what happens when you wiggle your trigger finger without a gun in your hand? Does your thumb or other fingers move also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbu Posted April 25, 2016 Author Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) I'm curious as to what happens when you wiggle your trigger finger without a gun in your hand? Does your thumb or other fingers move also? This is weird, but just now doing it ... the thumb is fairly still, but the other fingers are moving...a bunch. Feeling a bit on the hopeless side Oh, boyscout camp weekend was to get son and myself nra trainer certified. I'm now nra Basic Instructor trained and basic rifle instructor trained. Son took the classes to ba able to assist at summer camp and I'm able to train sprouts at our local scout land. Hoping we pick up basic pistol instructor this summer or fall. Those are LONG classes! Edited April 25, 2016 by johnbu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted April 25, 2016 Share Posted April 25, 2016 (edited) yeah nothing easy here... I have some different issues with my grip... I think I know your problem. If you hold the piston with one hand, are you not able to freely flex your trigger finger. (same hand....) If a firm grip causes you to tense your index you are going to have to practice holding the rest of you fingers tight and flexing the trigger finger. it takes a while but you can do it with practice. I know this, trust me... if you watch your sights while you are pulling the trigger you will see if your index finger is pulling smoothly. the recommended grip from my reading is not one I feel comfortable using so I will be quiet on that part. hold firmly on the pistol and move the index until it is free from the rest of your grip. it is that simple. it is that tough. miranda Edited April 25, 2016 by Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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