Question on Anderson's Repetitions and refinement book

[johnbu]

I have both a par timer and laser software setup. For simpler drills only the timer is used, but for more complex ones, the LASR software is used to get feedback on draw time, reload time, splits AND accuracy. When determining par time, should it be average to get all alpha hits? Mostly alpha, but no Ds? Or ... what?

I have been setting it with about 80% A hits with no D. Any more and it really makes me "cautious" and MUCH slower.

Also. How many drills should a person be doing in one session?

[Sarge]

I thought the preface of the book listed this info? Pretty sure the idea is alphas

Edited April 7, 2016 by Sarge

[ChuckS]

Why would you want to practice dropping points?

[motosapiens]

stop reading that book. get steve's thirdest book (get to work). learn about speed mode and accuracy mode and match mode.

much of my training is in speed mode, where I'm going as fast as i can see the sights and/or call the shots. I don't mind D's as long as I see them.

much of my training is in match mode, where I'm going as fast as I can call A's and close C's, and making up wide C's and D's and hardcover mikes.

[motosapiens]

Why would you want to practice dropping points?

You don't. you want to practice seeing at faster speeds. If you do nothing but shoot A's, you are not likely to increase your speed much.

[pointerman1967]

stop reading that book. get steve's thirdest book (get to work). learn about speed mode and accuracy mode and match mode.

much of my training is in speed mode, where I'm going as fast as i can see the sights and/or call the shots. I don't mind D's as long as I see them.

much of my training is in match mode, where I'm going as fast as I can call A's and close C's, and making up wide C's and D's and hardcover mikes.

Yup. His new book is back in stock on Amazon. I have been listening to his podcasts and his 3rd book reflects what he is saying in his pod casts. Good stuff.

[TonyG]

stop reading that book. get steve's thirdest book (get to work). learn about speed mode and accuracy mode and match mode.

much of my training is in speed mode, where I'm going as fast as i can see the sights and/or call the shots. I don't mind D's as long as I see them.

much of my training is in match mode, where I'm going as fast as I can call A's and close C's, and making up wide C's and D's and hardcover mikes.

Yup. His new book is back in stock on Amazon. I have been listening to his podcasts and his 3rd book reflects what he is saying in his pod casts. Good stuff.

This and this

[TonyG]

Don't get rid of the first book by any means though. Just use the the other two to expand upon it.

[ChuckS]

Why would you want to practice dropping points?

You don't. you want to practice seeing at faster speeds. If you do nothing but shoot A's, you are not likely to increase your speed much.

What I am saying is that include going for A's when pushing the par times. More points faster is gooder.

[motosapiens]

Why would you want to practice dropping points?

You don't. you want to practice seeing at faster speeds. If you do nothing but shoot A's, you are not likely to increase your speed much.

What I am saying is that include going for A's when pushing the par times. More points faster is gooder.

in match mode yes. in speed mode it may hold you back from learning to see faster. in speed mode I think it's more important to call the shot than it is to get an A. You can't really work on speed *and* accuracy at the same time.

[johnbu]

Why would you want to practice dropping points?

You don't. you want to practice seeing at faster speeds. If you do nothing but shoot A's, you are not likely to increase your speed much.

What I am saying is that include going for A's when pushing the par times. More points faster is gooder.

in match mode yes. in speed mode it may hold you back from learning to see faster. in speed mode I think it's more important to call the shot than it is to get an A. You can't really work on speed *and* accuracy at the same time.

Ok, I'll see about the 3rd book.

I did look at the front of the Anderson book, but it just talked about getting an honest sight picture or similar words. I reason I asked is the shift from timer to the laser showed more misses (c&d hits) than expected. But throttling back and back getting only A's was very slow (being an old guy and uspsa newbee the times went up 50% or more). I actually did the math (with an app actually, lol) to see what got a higher hit factor and it looked like faster but looser was better than slower but more accurate. Good to hear I got that right.

I do need help with smoothing out trigger motion as they get pulled off to the right thinking they were centered. I call that my "consistent miss". The random misses from going too fast and not seeing the sights. Sigh...

Tonight's steel challenge mini-match (4stages) will be a first test of the winter practice sessions.

Edited April 7, 2016 by johnbu

[FTDMFR]

Lately, I've been tracking two par times for a drill. First, I'll work up to as fast as I can go while still calling all As and close Cs.

When I can't get any faster, I'll switch to any called shot on paper (no mikes or no-shoots) and work up again to as fast as I can go.

To finish off, I'll shoot the drill at my regular match pace for a few reps to see what's what.

I think there are certain drills that really benefit from having a relaxed accuracy standard. Wide transitions, position entries and exits, and moving reloads come to mind. Anything that's less about accuracy and more about moving the gun and/or your body around faster.

Edited April 7, 2016 by FTDMFR

[TonyG]

Sounds like you might need to increase you live fire practice to identify what you really need to see out of a sight picture at a particular distance. I don't know that I trust the laser deal 100 percent there must be a degree of parallax error involved in that program.

[johnbu]

Sounds like you might need to increase you live fire practice to identify what you really need to see out of a sight picture at a particular distance. I don't know that I trust the laser deal 100 percent there must be a degree of parallax error involved in that program.

Can't say as I disagree! But my home range is under water and the public range is just now opening but has inconvenient hours. Oh, and we've had rain or snow about every day lately. SUX!!! But, I will be throwing more lead soon (yes, a spot to shoot in the back yard is nice!). However, the laser shoots from the barrel of my real gun and is very very close on poi to live fire. A greater concern is grooving a da pull vs da then sa. But last time shooting, draws were only a couple tenths slower than dryfire and were decent on accuracy. Not perfect not great, but ..."decent". A step up from last year

[TonyG]

I don't mean to say that your laser emitted from your pistol has any notable POA/POI shift. What I mean is that your camera that watches where your laser strikes is experiencing parallax error. The same way you would if you looked at a clock on the wall that was not directly in front of you. I would assume that your "lasr" camera must be off to one side as you are probably in front of you target. All speculation of course.

[johnbu]

I don't mean to say that your laser emitted from your pistol has any notable POA/POI shift. What I mean is that your camera that watches where your laser strikes is experiencing parallax error. The same way you would if you looked at a clock on the wall that was not directly in front of you. I would assume that your "lasr" camera must be off to one side as you are probably in front of you target. All speculation of course.

Ah.... well, no. The camera is directly in front if the targets. But I don't think it would matter as it picks up the dot on target nicely.

But range time tonight.. well it was cold! Gun didn't like it.

[pointerman1967]

I don't mean to say that your laser emitted from your pistol has any notable POA/POI shift. What I mean is that your camera that watches where your laser strikes is experiencing parallax error. The same way you would if you looked at a clock on the wall that was not directly in front of you. I would assume that your "lasr" camera must be off to one side as you are probably in front of you target. All speculation of course.

Ah.... well, no. The camera is directly in front if the targets. But I don't think it would matter as it picks up the dot on target nicely.

But range time tonight.. well it was cold! Gun didn't like it.

Again, I am a lowly C class shooter, but I would lose the laser/camera solution. The feedback is too late if you have to go back and watch video. Are you going to be able to remember what your trigger pull felt like on the shot that ended up in the D zone? Probably not. You need to see the front site in dry fire and where it is as you execute the trigger pull. Did you pull the site left, right, up or down? If so, where would that shot have ended up? Call every shot during dry fire even when pushing your limits in Speed Mode. Don't judge the accuracy and get upset that you had a poor shot, but only pay attention to making speed improvements while calling your shots. The time for caring about where your hits go is when you slip into Accuracy mode. Don't try to work on both at the same time. Seriously though, Anderson's third book is training Gold! Plus, he is probably still paying off that $13k vet bill.

[motosapiens]

Call every shot during dry fire even when pushing your limits in Speed Mode.

^ this has been the most valuable thing I have learned in the last year, and it has really helped me get more out of my training. By far the most important skill you can learn is the ability to call your shots. It makes everything else so much more productive, and lets you self-correct and self-analyze better.

[FTDMFR]

I don't mean to say that your laser emitted from your pistol has any notable POA/POI shift. What I mean is that your camera that watches where your laser strikes is experiencing parallax error. The same way you would if you looked at a clock on the wall that was not directly in front of you. I would assume that your "lasr" camera must be off to one side as you are probably in front of you target. All speculation of course.

Ah.... well, no. The camera is directly in front if the targets. But I don't think it would matter as it picks up the dot on target nicely.

But range time tonight.. well it was cold! Gun didn't like it.

Again, I am a lowly C class shooter, but I would lose the laser/camera solution. The feedback is too late if you have to go back and watch video. Are you going to be able to remember what your trigger pull felt like on the shot that ended up in the D zone? Probably not. You need to see the front site in dry fire and where it is as you execute the trigger pull. Did you pull the site left, right, up or down? If so, where would that shot have ended up? Call every shot during dry fire even when pushing your limits in Speed Mode. Don't judge the accuracy and get upset that you had a poor shot, but only pay attention to making speed improvements while calling your shots. The time for caring about where your hits go is when you slip into Accuracy mode. Don't try to work on both at the same time. Seriously though, Anderson's third book is training Gold! Plus, he is probably still paying off that $13k vet bill.

The feedback is actually pretty quick. It's not a video, it's a still image showing all of the hits, numbered in order.

When I use the software, it isn't a substitute for shot calling. It's just a check to see if my shot calling is honest.

[pointerman1967]

I don't mean to say that your laser emitted from your pistol has any notable POA/POI shift. What I mean is that your camera that watches where your laser strikes is experiencing parallax error. The same way you would if you looked at a clock on the wall that was not directly in front of you. I would assume that your "lasr" camera must be off to one side as you are probably in front of you target. All speculation of course.

Ah.... well, no. The camera is directly in front if the targets. But I don't think it would matter as it picks up the dot on target nicely.

But range time tonight.. well it was cold! Gun didn't like it.

Again, I am a lowly C class shooter, but I would lose the laser/camera solution. The feedback is too late if you have to go back and watch video. Are you going to be able to remember what your trigger pull felt like on the shot that ended up in the D zone? Probably not. You need to see the front site in dry fire and where it is as you execute the trigger pull. Did you pull the site left, right, up or down? If so, where would that shot have ended up? Call every shot during dry fire even when pushing your limits in Speed Mode. Don't judge the accuracy and get upset that you had a poor shot, but only pay attention to making speed improvements while calling your shots. The time for caring about where your hits go is when you slip into Accuracy mode. Don't try to work on both at the same time. Seriously though, Anderson's third book is training Gold! Plus, he is probably still paying off that $13k vet bill.

The feedback is actually pretty quick. It's not a video, it's a still image showing all of the hits, numbered in order.

When I use the software, it isn't a substitute for shot calling. It's just a check to see if my shot calling is honest.

Very interesting. I guess it would give you similar training to a live fire exercise where you are working on shot calling (see Anderson's two target shot calling drill).

[FTDMFR]

The feedback is actually pretty quick. It's not a video, it's a still image showing all of the hits, numbered in order.

When I use the software, it isn't a substitute for shot calling. It's just a check to see if my shot calling is honest.

Very interesting. I guess it would give you similar training to a live fire exercise where you are working on shot calling (see Anderson's two target shot calling drill).

It's great for that drill, as well as the drill where you call your shots for 10 seconds, then 12, then 14, etc.

Edited April 11, 2016 by FTDMFR

[johnbu]

As FTDMR said, it not a movie, it's more of a timer plus. It's seriously as close as live fire, only missing cost, noise and recoil.

Put up 3 targets, it gives shooter ready, standby,... beep. You draw, shoot and it shows you a list of shots in order w total and split plus where it detected the hit. The picture shows a dot on target or background so you can verify the called shot.

However, I do agree my training is lacking in shot calling. And I need more live fire, but most of all I NEED to keep my head in the game. Oh, I stunk up the joint this weekend at my first match. PeeEww.