Moly Coated Bullets

[nipplehead]

Wil Schueman's site warns about possible damage done by Moly Coated bullets. Is this a fallacy or is there real evidence that they are hard on barrels and erode barrel lands?

I have been leaning toward switching to these type of bullets but now I am hesitant.

Has anyone besides the bullet manufactorers done any research on this?

Aside from that, I would be going from FMJ ...I never shot lead..so any comparasions would help. as well as a general load data conversion....I use 4.3 N310 230 grain FMJ to make Major. How much less power with a precision bullet to make Major?

Performance comparisions would also be helpful.

Thanks

[Gun Geek]

I shoot Masterblasters, which are Poly coated. I think they are called "poly" because the coating is a combo of Moly & PTFE (Teflon), and other secret sauces. I have 1 gun with almost 10K rounds through it (Kimber), all the springs changed 3 or 4 times, and I can't tell that poly has done anything to it. It will still hold all shots in a 1" circle at 50 when fired from a ransom rest. It might have been a tad better (say the circle was 3/4") right after break-in at 500rds.

A buddy of mine (Clyde on this forum) has a Schueman (that I have seen) that he says was shot out by black bullets. I've looked at it, it looks almost like a smooth bore musket.

I don't see much about this problem, but I have heard about it. You think the Mythbusters would be interested?

[ParaJoe]

I shot some 200gr LSWC's in both moly and non molycoated this weekend. I didn't really notice any more or less cleanup with either. The moly's did run an average of 50fps faster than the non moly's. In a Para P14 LTD I was shooting 200gr LSWC's loaded with 4 grains of bullseye. They were running about 800 fps. JOe

[gm iprod]

There are a number of threads about Moly Coated projectiles. Look at these and use the info contained therein to your advantage.

If we are talking Lead projectiles, then many of the ready made pills are "poly" coated, all sorts of colours and types of coating and gungeek is about right on about what they put on. But as far as I can decipher the coating consists of a Polymer base coating containing PTFE and some dye and the Moly.

If we go with Jacketed projectiles then the Moly is usually added by being Tumbled on (Sierra, Berger, NECO etc) or painted on (MsMoly, Lyman etc etc). I have used a huge amount of Moly coated jacketed projectiles in rifles with very few ill effects. The biggest problem I have with the Moly coated projectiles (which I tumble on) is that the excess comes off on your hands. Many off the manufactured projectiles usually cover the moly with a wax to prevent the Moly coming off (NECO, Sierra). You must adjust your load to compensate for the reduced friction of the Moly coated projectiles.

Some barrel makers are usually concerned with the build up of the Polymer carrier or some of the coating applied over the Moly. If this is not keep down to a minimum problems may arise. They are, I suppose, trying to minimise their risk in this matter by warning people. It is your responsibility to test what you are using and to be aware of the results.

[PGBsuperior]

Wil Schueman's site warns about possible damage done by Moly Coated bullets. Is this a fallacy or is there real evidence that they are hard on barrels and erode barrel lands?

I've heard much of this myself, and I tend to believe there is something to it with *some* moly bullets. Perhaps there is more to it where shooters treat their bores with moly, and then don't clean them after shooting, and allow them to become damp in humidity.

Molybdenum disulfide has sulfur in it, and sulfur, steel, and moisture don't mix well. You can get a pitted bore in this way.

I produce moly coated bullets that you don't have to worry about. I use a proprietary formula and procedure that I got from a real old-timer who made these bullets for 28 years. His name was Jim Cox, and he ran J&L bullets out of Oroville California.

In my handguns my moly bullets are all I shoot anymore, and many of my customers are quite happy with them. One in Nebraska will not shoot anything else now, and he owns a large reloading operation.

What my customers like most is that there's no burnt lube to clean out of your gun, and at the most it's a wet patch, a dry patch, and you are done.

Another thing I've come to appreciate is that I don't get lube squeezing into my loading dies, the seating/crimping die specifically. I've had lube build up in there and change the seating depth. you don't get that with a moly bullet. Nor do you have to clean burnt lube out of your gun. There is no moly left in your bore either.

BTW, I just loaded 3000 rounds with my moly bullets for the range tomorrow morning.

[Harmon]

if you read that article carefully, he states they were moly coated jacketed bullets...not the precision bullets.

i think the moly/poly bullets have enough polymer in the coating to act like a buffer against any silicon left in the moly...

even if they did wear the barrel slightly faster, how long you expect a bore to last?? 50K, 100K?? 200K???

i know several shooters with more than 100K through their guns with the same barrel...looking at the cost of even 100 thousand cheap cast lead bullets vs a 200 dollar barrel, the barrel is the cheap item..

dont worry bout it, just shoot!

[wsimpso1]

Back before I discovered USPSA and IDPA, I used to shoot High Power with moly coated jacketed bullets. Accurate (High Power standards are pretty high) time between cleanings in a High Power gun is usually around a couple hundred rounds, and moly bullets extend that, and then take copper deposition on the bore to a lower level, so cleaning is easier too. Kroil and and a wipe with JB at 400 rounds vs copper solvents and then a bunch of JB every 200 rounds. Remember, High Power means 60,000 psi and much higher temperatures than we use even in an Open pistol. At .45 ACP pressures and temperatures, we do not wear out throats and we do not have copper deposition on our bores either. Some of us might have rough grooves and scrub copper from our bullets, but rifles erode throats, vaporize jacket from the bullet base and then it condenses on the bore as the gases expand and cool. And Moly did cause many of us to bump powder charges to get the same velocity. Some folks recognized that bullet pull dropped with moly bullets, and polished down their neck expansion ball to get another 0.001" of bullet grip. We find that we need a smaller difference in powder charge between naked and moly when we do this.

Biggest problem cited by any High Power 'smith was that if you load a round without powder, moly bullets will squib far enough down the bore to allow another round to chamber and blow up the rifle. Plain jacket bullets are less likely to do this. Hmm. So I tested squibs with my modified neck expander and there was no way to get another round in the chamber. Never had a problem, they shoot great, and you can do a practice before a weekend match, and not clean through the interval with great accuracy.

So what does this mean to us? Moly and Poly means that you might need more powder to get the same velocity. Let your chrono be your guide. My Master Blasters Bullets in .40 were right on their website's recommendation of 4.7 N320 for safe USPSA Major. In 45, I am having poor results with N320 (need more powder and they are dirty!) so I think that my "slow" barrel is resulting in the powder not getting lit reliably. Rem primers... Maybe I shall try some of those thousands of Federal Rifle primers I have sitting around from my .30 cal High Power days. Yes, I am old. This just proves that all barrels are individuals..

Billski

[Liota]

I shot Precision Bullets .45 ACP SWC for about three years. Had no problems making major. Clean-Up was a breeze. Used them with Winchester Super Field. Between a powder cleaner than Bullseye and no lead in the barrel, clean-up was a squirt down and wipe off operation.

FWIW,

Liota

[AustinMike]

I tried Precision bullets in my stock Kimber barrel and they caused heavy leading. I think my barrel has a rough spot or two, so I switched to jacketed bullets. I used Rainier plated bullets for years without issue, but FMJ's are only a little more money. I think I got Major PF with 4.0 N310 and a 230gr. Precision, if I remember right. They move down the barrel faster than FMJ's, that's for sure. I use 4.3gr. of N310 for Major PF with Zero FMJ's.

[Bigbadaboom]

I shoot Precision "Black Bullets" exclusively and have for about 2-1/2 years through my Ultimatch bbl. I've shot the same load (185 grn .40 in front of 4.3 grns. of VV N320=171+/- P.F.)

I have no bbl. wear or loss of accuracy. I dip my bbl. in a 50/50 mix of Hydrogyn peroxide and white vinegar when I see a little build-up at the chamber edge and that's all the bbl. cleaning I do.

[RickB]

I shot Precision bullets through a Schuemann barrel (.45 Classic), for about three years. Every 1000-1500 rounds, I'd run a dry bore brush through it, 10-15 strokes, and the barrel would be sparkly clean. Masterblasters leave a little more gunk, but for the price, I can do a bit of cleaning. I've switched back to Precision (at least until Masterblasters get back up to speed), and they shoot just as clean in my current Kart barrel as they did in the Schuemann; next to no residue, even after 1000 rounds. Buddies have had less success with them, in terms of residue.

[Merlin Orr]

I have shot around 6-7K through my .45 - all but 1 50 rnd box has been Precision bullets over Clays.

(Flame Suit ON)

I have Never - not one time - cleaned my barrel. I do clean and lube as needed.

I just took it out of the gun, looked through the barrel toward a light, looks great.

[Harmon]

clean a 45 barrel? mine has 15000 rounds through it without even a bore snake through it....plain lead, precisions, masterblasters, bear creeks.....rainier plated....wolf factory with the occasional winnie white box...

the barrel is slick! super shiney and doesnt pick up lead even with some of the cheapest hard-cast lead bullets.

i like 3.8 grains clays and a 230 precision...its greeaaat!

[8ring]

I use 200gr Precision RNFP in my S & W 625. They are much cleaner, leave almost no residue in the cylinder, and produce much less smoke than hard cast. They also do not leave any lead in the forcing cone while a small ring of lead is visible after about 100 - 150 hard cast lead bullets.

I run a few wet and dry patches down the bore and through the chambers after a match and I'm finished cleaning.

Chris

[AzShooter]

I've been shooting Billy Bullets here in Phoenix, a moly coated bullet and have had great luck with them. I especially like the no smoke advantage to moly. I've also experienced better accuracy with them.

[underlug]

I've been shooting Billy Bullets here in Phoenix, a moly coated bullet and have had great luck with them. I especially like the no smoke advantage to moly. I've also experienced better accuracy with them.

I've also had excellent luck with Billy Bullets in .38/.357. When I run out of my current .45 bullets, I'll order more Billy Bullets