sbaker5 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Have a question about the legality of a short barrel rifle and can't find a specific answer on the net. I have a 10.3 inch upper with no comp on the barrel. I have a certified approved suppressor that is 6" long. While I am waiting for approval for my short barrel rifle can I put my suppressor on it, brining the length to the minimum 16" without pinning and welding the suppressor? I have been TOLD the only reason they pin and weld is to prevent someone from easily removing the break, becoming an instant felon. I don't want to pin and weld my suppressor but I don't want to break the law either. If someone can point me to facts and the law on this I would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Unless you pin or weld the can to the barrel it is still considered a SBR if it has a stock and barrel less than 16 inches in length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Unless you pin or weld the can to the barrel it is still considered a SBR if it has a stock and barrel less than 16 inches in length. Correct - the short answer is NO, you cannot legally do what you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishop414 Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 +1 to above. Another option while waiting, change out your buffer tube to a "pistol" buffer tube, no stock. Then you are legal with the 10" barrel and can use your suppressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Actually you have to start with a receiver that has never had a rifle stock on it to be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcguns Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Actually you have to start with a receiver that has never had a rifle stock on it to be legal. Not really. If it was never assembled into a complete rifle it is still just a receiver and can still be built into either a rifle or pistol. Attaching a stock to a lower without an upper doesn't make it into a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 You might want to recheck that. I've just been doing a little checking and doing a pistol build myself with thoughts of doing a SBR later. My understanding is if the first buffer tube on the lower is a Rifle it continues to be classified from that point on as a rifle lower. A Rifle can not be legally converted to a pistol without falling afoul of the NFA SBR rules but the other direction is legal and can be reverted. Check for the changes in the last year as with all the Sig brace and shouldering letters things have gone back and forth a bit. You don't want to get into any areas of constructive intent. Either way having unambiguous pistol receiver would be preferred to avoid any possible issues.Especially when stripped lowers are available for under 50 bucks right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcguns Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 Classified as a "rifle lower" in what way? A complete AR lower with a butt stock when transferred on a 4473 is listed on page 2 under "type of firearm" as: Other firearm. Under the description section on page 3 it will be described as "receiver". It should not be identified as a rifle or pistol receiver at all. That's not even a choice, it's just a receiver. That's why a 20yr old can't legally purchase a lower from an FFL holder, because it is not a rifle yet. This was explained to me personally by the folks at NICS and by the ATF. Obviously you can do whatever you want and erring on the side of caution is usually not a bad idea, I'm just sayin it ain't a rifle until it is a complete rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) I've talked to several sources locally and been researching sources for the last few months, one is a type 7 FFL who "manufactures" AR's to spec. Essentially he purchases parts, has some manufactured for him then assembles. But he keeps a sheaf of documentation to keep abreast of the recent rulings since he is could loose his license (aka livelihood) for not doing it properly. From my understanding it's post form 4473 when the buffer tube is attached when ATF designates receivers sold as "other" as pistol or rifle. Mostly since all stripped receivers should originate as other unless you specifically request a certain type. To be sure I am most definitely erring and advising on the side of caution to avoid "shortening" a rifle into a SBR and starting with a receiver that has never had a buffer tube attached. It's just not worth taking the risk as "I thought it was legal" is not a defense to federal prosecution. Granted how could they prove it unless you gave documentation in the form of pictures in media and such. With the ATF Bureaucracy it's better to not tiptoe in the grey areas as they have no sense of humor. There has been a lot of confusing and differing opinions coming from ATF in this area. I am afraid a single source even when it is ATF itself is not the end of things. Edited December 1, 2015 by Glockinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcguns Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 From my understanding it's post form 4473 when the buffer tube is attached when ATF designates receivers sold as "other" as pistol or rifle. Mostly since all stripped receivers should originate as other unless you specifically request a certain type. As I am just a lowly type 01 FFL holder please explain to me why a complete lower with a stock attached is also transferred as "other firearm" and described as "receiver". Yes, after this if you slap a rifle barrel on there it will forever be a rifle. However, until a barrel is attached it's neither a rifle nor a pistol. OP, sorry if we've hijacked your thread. Definitely don't attach your lower with a buttstock to that upper. The attachment of the can will not matter unless it's permanent. I would recommend you attach a pistol configured lower or just wait for your approval on the sbr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockinator Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 http://www.jcweaponry.com/images/ar15/BB.JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcguns Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 (edited) Even that letter is confusing and contradicts itself. And/or stocked as a rifle? The GCA definition of a rifle says stock AND barrel. Look it up if you don't believe me. Please take note of this open letter issued by the ATF. https://www.atf.gov/file/60686/download Clearly states that a receiver is not a rifle. Wasting my time here, I'm out. Edited December 1, 2015 by gdcguns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdcguns Posted December 1, 2015 Share Posted December 1, 2015 SBaker, If you don't have a pistol lower at your home I would also consider keeping that short upper somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropsitos Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Fwiw, I have a friend who pinned and welded a 300blk can to a 9-ish inch barrel. I've shot it and it works fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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