Powder Choices For New Loader

[3chux]

My first post to the forum... getting ready to order a Dillon 550 to begin my reloading journey. Learned a lot from the forum and talking directly with Brian. Bought a good reloading manual and the video and with the help of some experienced friends will begin reloading. At this point I know worse than nothing, I know a little bit. Here's what I do: Plunk paper/metal targets with .223/.40 primarily. Will also be shooting 9mm, .357/.38 and eventually .308. Lots of calibers so the 550 seems like the logical choice. I'll go through 1500-2000 rounds/month. Ranges are from 12-25 yds indoors to out to 600 yds outdoors. Accuracy is important but I'm not a competative shooter. (yet) I'm going NUTS trying to figure out which powder to use. They confuse the heck out of me. Many brands to chose from and I don't have a clue. Sure could use some help here.

Thanks, 3chux

It is not possible to reason with nations that make bombs out of their own children.

[Sgtsvi]

Welcome to the forums 2chux. For your 9mm and .40 loads I would suggest Titegroup. It is clean, consistant, and most importantly, cheap. I buy mine from Sportsmans Warhouse for $12.50 a pound. I dont reload rifle ammo, so one of the other guys will have to help you out with that.

go to a match and you wont be able to say your not a competative shooter anymore.

Dave

[BigDave]

Titegroup will cover the loads you mentioned (but I'm not certain about 38 spl). You should also take a look at Vhit N320 or N330 depending on bullet weight. For light (Minor) loads, I suggest Clays or 700X.

[Gun Geek]

My first post to the forum... getting ready to order a Dillon 550 to begin my reloading journey.  Learned a lot from the forum and talking directly with Brian.  Bought a good reloading manual and the video and with the help of some experienced friends will begin reloading.  At this point I know worse than nothing, I know a little bit.  Here's what I do:  Plunk paper/metal targets with .223/.40 primarily.  Will also be shooting 9mm, .357/.38 and eventually .308.  Lots of calibers so the 550 seems like the logical choice.  I'll go through 1500-2000 rounds/month.  Ranges are from 12-25 yds indoors to out to 600 yds outdoors.  Accuracy is important but I'm not a competative shooter.  (yet)  I'm going NUTS trying to figure out which powder to use.  They confuse the heck out of me.  Many brands to chose from and I don't have a clue.  Sure could use some help here.

Thanks, 3chux

It is not possible to reason with nations that make bombs out of their own children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey:

Think seriously about a 650 instead of a 550. With the round count you're talking about, a 650 will save lots of time. Search the forum and you'll see plenty of discussion about the reasons for picking one over the other, but here's the overview:

1) IMHO an auto indexing press is actually safer than a manual indexing press, the chances of a double charge is almost zero - you have to try to do it. Squibs (no powder) are still possible, but that leads to #2:

2) The powder check will save your ASS. It is a little contraption that senses the amount of powder in the case and beeps if it is out of spec. It won't catch it if you are 1/10 out, but it will catch no powder, or double powder situations. The 550 doesn't really support using the automatic powder check. The 550 can be modified to use this feature, but you lose a station, so you're forced to seat and crimp in the same operation. Lots of people seat and crimp together, but what a PITA it is to adjust that die. This about drove me nuts back in the days of spending all night for 50 rds of 45 ACP on a Rockchucker.

3) The case feeder makes life tons easier. Even if you don't get it with the initial peruchase, it is very easy to add later.

4) The only thing you worry about with the 650 (or 1050) is setting a bullet and properly stroking the press.

OK, now to powder. You didn't say if you had a manual. A good manual is a requirement. I started with the Speer #13, but there are others. I have no particular axe to grind on that. Lee has a good one, Lyman has a good one, etc. These manuals will give you lots of "how-to" info that isn't really too product specific. Then look at the component manufacturer's manuals. Hodgdon has a cool manual in the form of a magazine. Sierra, Vit, Accurate, all have manuals with recipies. There are some little books (get them from Dillon or Midway) that are "complete". Each book lists loads for a particular caliber, with info from lots of manufacturers.

You are not going to find a powder that will drive all the loads you listed above. Titegroup will work fine for 40's and 9's (depending on bullet choice, but you can easily work it out). I know Varget will work for 223 and 308 (I use it for both). Titegroup will probably also work for the 38, but my Speer manual doesn't show any Titegroup loads for 357. Titegroup is probably a little too fast for 357.

I'm guessing you can get it down to 3 powders, maybe 2, but I'd be a little leary of TG in a 357.

Get some manuals and figger it out. You can get all the manuals I've mentioned from Dillon. Your buddies may also have them as well.

Also, until you get into competition where you care about things like powerfactor, bullet choice, you won't save any $$ on 9mm and 223. There's just too much decent stuff out there that costs just a little more than what you will pay for the components. You'll save some on the 40's and 38's. You save lots on the 357 and 308. I make 308 (147gn fmj) for about $4.70 per box of 20 (23.41 cents per round). That's about 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of cheap surplus and 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of name brad stuff.

Hope this helps.

Good luck and stay safe.

[Gun Geek]

Uhhh, here's my point:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22533

Manual Indexing is DANGEROUS

[XRe]

Manual Indexing  is DANGEROUS

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, come on now. Let's not be needlessly dramatic.... I've loaded on both a 550 and a 650. Believe me - if you get distracted, there are just as many ways to walk off w/ a double charge on a 650 as there are a 550. Ask me how many times I almost had powder spilled all over my 650 (loading a compressed .38 Super load)....

You need to *PAY ATTENTION* when loading on either. Period. There are several ways to observe the powder in the case following powder drop (I kind of like the mirror idea for a 550) - its a good idea to do so.

Plenty of people have loaded ANSI standard a**-loads of ammo on 550s and *NEVER* had a problem with it. Mistakes happen.... and they can happen w/ a 650, too...

Enough drift

[ChuckS]

I just retired a 550 that I bought used about 50,000 rounds ago. Not one of those rounds ever blew up. The I guy I bought it from got the press in the late 80's. He shot USPSA, Bianchi and Steel Challenge with rounds loaded on it and never blew anything up. You just gotta keep your head out of your butt. But then, that is true about most things

Later,

Chuck

[Run n Gun]

Titegroup will cover the loads you mentioned (but I'm not certain about 38 spl). 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

38 spl, 158gr LSWC, 3.7 grains Titegroup. Barely minor in my gun.

Ed

[Newguy]

Gun Geek, I guess I must be lucky since I've loaded 50-60k rounds on a 550B and never had a double charge. Come to think of it, I've never had a squib with a 550. Wish I could say the same for the 650 -- that little blue nut is too loose and the charges are all over the place.

I sold my 550 to buy the 650 because I thought it was faster. Yea, it's faster when everything works right, which occurs only some of the time. I miss my 550. Slow, ponderous, etc., but stone cold reliable and when there's a problem it's less than a 5 minute fix.

What I'm saying is that 3chux made the right decision on the 550. The 650 is finicky, especially for a new reloader. IMHO, the 550 is the best machine to learn on.

Titegroup is my choice for .40 but I never loaded 9 on it.

[3chux]

Wohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh guys (or ladies), didn't mean to cause a food fight here. It's been quite educational and this is the best way to learn. I have yet to press my first cartridge. The Speer #13 manual has been a great learning tool as you all have thus far. I truly apprecite the wisdom from all of your collective experience... keep it coming. I'll put a post up when I start yankin' the handle (no smart comments please) 3chux

[Rising Sight]

I bought a 550 as my first press last year. I'm sure I will upgrade too something faster someday. I just take my time and pay attention to what I'm doing. Mine is set up with a powder check die now(I let my 14 year old son reload on it) to hopefully eliminate a double charge or squib.

[Gun Geek]

Wish I could say the same for the 650 -- that little blue nut is too loose and the charges are all over the place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whatchutalkinbout - Which blue nut? By "all over the place" do you mean that the charge weight varies? My experience is that the powder measure is +/- 0.1gn all day long. If you're talking about the blue plastic nut on the rod going up to the powder measure - ditch it. Search the forum for the mod.

Agree that when the 650 fouls up, it does it good. It also takes a little bit of tuning (there's lots of advice here) but with just a little mechanical ability and some basic tools, the thing just sings.

I understand what you're saying about beginning loaders, but that logic is a little like the logic that says you are better off starting with a rockchucker. That's true for your first 50 rounds. After that the boredom leads to mistakes. I have taught several people to handload (I R a NRA certifried Handloading Instructer), and sticking with conventional wisdom, I coached them into rockchuckers. ALL of them made squib loads. When I learned I made squibs. In about 20K on the 650 I have had 0 squibs/doubles get past the press. My main load is a 45ACP with 4.3gn of Clays. You can 2 1/2 charge that.

I know everyone says "pay attention", but we are human. We will make a mistake. My point is that a 650 (and a 1050) have systems in place to help you catch or avoid the mistakes. A 550 does not.

A basic 650 (no case feed) is about $100 more than a 550. For the very small difference in price, It seems silly to get a press that does not have the safety features built into it. I now recommend either a square deal or a 650 or a 1050.

[Gun Geek]

Wohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh guys (or ladies), didn't mean to cause a food fight here.  It's been quite educational and this is the best way to learn.  I have yet to press my first cartridge.  The Speer #13 manual has been a great learning tool as you all have thus far.  I truly apprecite the wisdom from all of your collective experience... keep it coming.  I'll put a post up when I start yankin' the handle (no smart comments please)  3chux

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry about the food fight. That's what this stuff is really about - an open discussion. As long as we keep it civil (just throwing food, not punches) it's all good. That's why this is the best board, we have discussions (spirited at times) but they rarely spiral down into some of the nasty stuff I've seen elsewhere.

I don't take it personally when folks disagree with me, and I don't think they do either.

Glad we can help. Did you pick any powders yet?

[Gun Geek]

I bought a 550 as my first press last year.  I'm sure I will upgrade too something faster someday. I just take my time and pay attention to what I'm doing. Mine is set up with a powder check die now(I let my 14 year old son reload on it) to hopefully eliminate a double charge or squib.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How did you set up the powder check? Donate a station and use a seater & crimper die? How about the actuator rod, did you drill a hole in the tool head? I've heard Dillon has supplied a few tool heads with the hole in them, and I've seen ones that people have drilled. I also undertand that you might be able to snake the rod down beside the tool head.

[3chux]

As of now given what I'll be shooting, it will be Titegroup for .40/9mm (and maybe .357/.38) and Varget for .223/.308. Seems to mixed feelings on Titegroup for .357/.38. I'll further research that one. I'll start with minimium loads of course and work my way up. 3chux

[John Dunn]

Titegroup and Varget would be my choices to start out as well.

The 550 is a great choice for the press, the caliber conversion sets are cheaper, and it's a little simpler to learn on. I like mine a great deal.

Main thing is to reload in a distraction free environment, pay attention, get into a solid routine of how you work the press. If something messes up the routine, double check every station before proceeding. If anything is even remotely wrong, or if you can't remember whether you indexed the press or not (did I stop at that stop sign?), clear the press, throw the loaded round away and start over.

Auto-indexing is nice, but it is not necessary to reload safely.

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. Be prepared when you end up saving no money whatsoever, but end up shooting a heck of a lot more for the same price!

[3chux]

Looks like Titegroup for pistol for sure and then Varget to begin for .223/.308 but may graduate to IMR 4198 for .223 and IMR 4895 for .308. 3chux.