Big Dog Howie Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 What we have observed in our shop on the CZC/CZ-UB is the hammer hooks are taller than the CGW 91000 performance hammer. The CGW Short Reset System for the P-09 is designed to work with a very short hammer hook height, in this case our 91000, so you get that 1911 or near 1911 like break we all love. If your P-09 will not work with the CZC/CZ-UB hammer, the problem is most likely the hammer hook height. It's not that difficult to carefully lower the hooks on this hammer. I am confident Stuart at CZC, or CGW can help if needed. Thanks schmeky for answering my questions on Sat, I actually removed all the upgrade parts only because I would have to use the CGW hammer to get the P09 to run flawless but unfortunately the hammer is not Production legal.Talked with Stuart today about the pre travel, you need to figure out how to reduce that please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjdaniel78 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I cut the hooks on the factory hammer when I installed the CGW parts. I could probably go more, but I'm happy with it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Howie Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 I cut the hooks on the factory hammer when I installed the CGW parts. I could probably go more, but I'm happy with it now. Did that help with pre travel in single action, mine breaks almost at the back of the trigger guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjdaniel78 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Yes. I either took 0.018" off or there is 0.018" remaining, I don't remember. I measured I with a dial caliper then took it off slowly too keep it square. About half way I reassembled it and checked, then went some more. Took about 30 minutes from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmeky Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 To get a short reset, the trigger in SA will release closer to the back of the trigger guard, especially if you retain a stock hammer or even the CZ-UB hammer. The way to circumvent this to a degree is with shorter hammer hooks = release of the sear/hammer hooks sooner = trigger further forward. It's a balancing act with the P-09, when we developed the system for the P-09, there was no CZ-UB hammer, and the OEM hammer simply could not be "cut" and subsequently retain acceptable system timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Today's update I installed the CGW extra power sear spring. This should eliminate sear bounce for good. This is what happened on my Lyman trigger gauge Pin under 07 plug with Blue 13# Hammer Spring SA 4# 0.1 oz. DA 7# 13.5 oz. This was much higher than I had expected, so I tried this: Pin through the 07 hammer plug as normal with the gold 15# Hammer Spring SA 3# 12.6 oz. DA 6# 4.5 oz. The hammer springs sit much lower when in the 07 plug compared to the 09 plug. This causes a lower force on the hammer and even though it is a 15# spring, I'm faily confident it is still a Federal primer only setup. The measurements of the different plugs from the pin hole to the top of the spring are as follows: 07 Plug: 2.697" 09 Plug: 2.959" So obviously there is significantly more pressure on the trigger with the 09 plug assuming you are using the same spring. I'll give this a try in live fire tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjdaniel78 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 What about spacers in the bottom of the plug? 4-40 washers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) What about spacers in the bottom of the plug? 4-40 washers?This is something I have thought about and like the idea. I'm just trying to figure out an effective way around this option.Maybe some brass ones to add weight Edited September 15, 2015 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmatt Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 A quick question for zhunter. How many rounds through your P-09? I just installed a pile of CGW parts in my P-09 and polished up the trigger and am getting 7#/3# trigger pulls with the 13# hammer spring. I know on my SP-01 after a year plus of shooting it lost almost a full pound DA and 1/2 a pound in SA after I first upgraded it. I guessing my P-09 should do the same after some time and more rounds down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 A quick question for zhunter. How many rounds through your P-09? I just installed a pile of CGW parts in my P-09 and polished up the trigger and am getting 7#/3# trigger pulls with the 13# hammer spring. I know on my SP-01 after a year plus of shooting it lost almost a full pound DA and 1/2 a pound in SA after I first upgraded it. I guessing my P-09 should do the same after some time and more rounds down range. I have a 2000+ rounds through it. I am trying to do two things, eliminate that stupid lanyard ring and get a great trigger. The 07 Plug is the only legal way around the lanyard ring. A light trigger in this platform causes a sear "bounce", hence the extra power sear spring. I think I am getting close to solving this puzzle. Of course the DNROI could cure the whole problem if we could just cut the ring off the 09 Plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmeky Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 An FYI, when our new website launches this Friday 9-18, we will have a slew of items not on our current updated website. We have a new part number - 51820 that consists of 2 sear springs for the P-07/09. One is an .018" wire diameter, the other is .020". The stock wire diameter is .016". We sent zhunter the .020". Sounds like the .018" would dial in your SA. Send me an e-mail and I'll fix you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 An FYI, when our new website launches this Friday 9-18, we will have a slew of items not on our current updated website. We have a new part number - 51820 that consists of 2 sear springs for the P-07/09. One is an .018" wire diameter, the other is .020". The stock wire diameter is .016". We sent zhunter the .020". Sounds like the .018" would dial in your SA. Send me an e-mail and I'll fix you up. Thanks, email sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjdaniel78 Posted September 16, 2015 Share Posted September 16, 2015 Maybe order a 1 foot piece of brass bar stock from onlinemetals.com, grainger or MSC. You could try tungstun, but you need a way to cut it. I've done it with a die grinder and cutoff bit, but it wasn't quick or even easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 16, 2015 Author Share Posted September 16, 2015 Today's range report 100% function!!! No Sear Bounce No Light Strikes Here was today's setup: Pin through the 07 hammer plug as normal with the gold 15# Hammer Spring, and the .20" CGW Extra Power Sear Spring SA 3# 12.6 oz. DA 6# 4.5 oz. Gun ran great for approximately 250 rounds (I would have shot twice that but I was going faster than my Dr. said I should and my tendon got a bit sore so I stopped). I was shooting hoser targets at speed, so there was every chance if something was going to go wrong it would. NOT one hiccup. As stated, the trigger pull is a bit higher than ideal for me but under these conditions I did not notice it once. Schmeky ( David at CGW) is sending me a .18" extra power sear spring which should seal the deal and be perfect. I will report on this when it arrives. As always, thanks David for your unbelievable customer service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 Shot a match today, gun was 100% In match conditions the "heavier" sear spring was not an issue at all. Matter of fact, not once did it seem heavy. So for all practical purposes, the above setup is a good to go. But, being a trigger snob I will give a review on the .18" sear spring when I get back home from 3 weeks of work. I'm 99.99% sure I will use the .18" spring in my setup going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racingjoe27 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Two reports of 100% function, just curious if that is with federal only primers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Two reports of 100% function, just curious if that is with federal only primers? Yes, Federal only. As stated some where previously, with the P-07 plug the hammer spring sits lower on the plug, so the same spring in the 07 plug exerts much less pressure on the hammer than if it was sitting in the 09 plug. I have been buying up Federal primers for about 9 months now as I had anticipated going to a 8.5# hammer spring in my Shadow, so that stock helps in my P-09 endeavor My wife will be using the Winchester primers in her Shadow. IF you want to use a harder primer, just use a stronger spring. The blue 13# spring is nearly 100% on Winchester primers, so I am sure a tweak or two could make it work no problem. Possibly a few washers for spacers in the plug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 (edited) I ended up getting a P-09 to play with after seeing your first posts. So thanks for that! I'm not sure what the "approved" method of measuring a double action trigger pull. I'm trying to measure just below the mid point of the trigger, perpendicular to the face. No sear bounce for now and reliable ignition (only 200 rounds in the latest configuration w/ Federal white box ammo) but about 6# DA and 2.5# SA on a lyman spring scale. Anyway that setup: CGW short reset kit w/ stock roller (.225) and firing pin block lever, stock sear spring, CZUB comp hammer, 13# blue main spring w/ P-09 plug and lots of polishing. The stock firing pin block lever moves the sear enough to clear the taller CZUB hooks. The stock main spring and P-07 plug seems to drop the weights down a little more, so I'll probably try that next. Sorry forgot: CGW reduced power trigger return spring too. Edited September 22, 2015 by busdriver02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) adjusted my trigger scale technique, getting similar numbers to zhunter back on page 1, so that's good. zhunter, is it accurate to say you started getting the sear bounce when you started experimenting with the P-07 plug? Do you also have the CGW hammer installed? ETA: Nevermind, just found the sear bounce/ hammer follow..... Edited September 25, 2015 by busdriver02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 adjusted my trigger scale technique, getting similar numbers to zhunter back on page 1, so that's good. zhunter, is it accurate to say you started getting the sear bounce when you started experimenting with the P-07 plug? Do you also have the CGW hammer installed? I started getting the sear bounce when I went to the very light hammer springs. The heavier sear spring is meant to be a cure for sear bounce when using light hammer springs. It would not be an issue with stock or 15# hammer springs and the 09 plug. Certainly the 07 plug adds to the sear bounce issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 That checks, I was trying to avoid the heavy sear spring and thought I'd somehow stumbled into a working setup. Not so much, got hammer follow about an hour ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 26, 2015 Author Share Posted September 26, 2015 That checks, I was trying to avoid the heavy sear spring and thought I'd somehow stumbled into a working setup. Not so much, got hammer follow about an hour ago. You most likely need the CGW .18" sear spring http://cajungunworks.com/product/50020-p0709-increased-weight-sear-spring/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Thanks. On the way along with an extra sear to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 27, 2015 Share Posted September 27, 2015 Chopped up an old delrin sight pusher to make three ~.090 thick spacers for the bottom of the P-07 plug. Each spacer seems to change the pull weight by about a half pound, with all three being equal to a normal P-09 plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busdriver02 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Some more experimenting notes: Tried a fourth spacer to compress a lighter hammer spring a bit more and the tail of the hammer strut ends up touching the spacer stack. Could probably trim the strut a bit, but don't really see a reason to go down that path. I still get hammer follow with the .018 sear spring. It seems to be related to how hard I'm gripping the gun. Racking the slide with a limp wrist will get the hammer to fall to the half cock once every 15-20 times, doesn't happen with a strong grip. Still playing with the extra sear... TLDR: No solutions, just things that don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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