FTDMFR Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) My Google-fu reveals that the EGW chamber checker doesn't have a leade, so if the bearing surface of your bullet extends at all past the case mouth, it won't fit in the gauge. The gauge is doing its job, though. If a round will fit in the gauge, then it will definitely fit in your barrel. A good gauge is supposed to reject some good parts. Edited August 8, 2015 by FTDMFR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackhand Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 My Google-fu reveals that the EGW chamber checker doesn't have a leade, so if the bearing surface of your bullet extends at all past the case mouth, it won't fit in the gauge. The gauge is doing it's job, though. If a round will fit in the gauge, then it will definitely fit in your barrel. A good gauge is supposed to reject some good parts. Thanks for articulating that. I looked in my EGW gauge earlier and saw that the shoulder where the case mouth rests extends straight down. That's the exact issue I had where the bearing surface of a loaded round hit the area where you'd normally have leade/throat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 8, 2015 Author Share Posted August 8, 2015 My Google-fu reveals that the EGW chamber checker doesn't have a leade, so if the bearing surface of your bullet extends at all past the case mouth, it won't fit in the gauge. The gauge is doing it's job, though. If a round will fit in the gauge, then it will definitely fit in your barrel. A good gauge is supposed to reject some good parts. Winner winner chicken dinner. Thanks for doing this research for me! I loaded a round down to around 1.05 and then it passed the case gauge. I was ruling out an OAL issue since I tried 2 different types of bullets, but both do have a bit of a shoulder extending past the case before the ogive. So good to know I'm not doing anything wrong; although, I wasted $20 on a useless case gauge unless I happen to settle on a bullet that has a profile the case gauge likes... So why do some of you hate the FCD? I'm a bit unclear on exactly the difference between the FCD and a regular taper die. Isn't the FCD just a taper die with a carbide ring to also resize the case? Why would I need to size again after using the first full length sizing die? I guess if I don't seat the bullet straight and bulge the case the FCD will fix it? All I have right now is the Lee 4 die set which came with the FCD, so unless there's good reason to, I'm not planning on going out and buying a regular taper die to replace the FCD, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biglou13 Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong. The bullet seater also taper crimps if set up properly..... If all dies and bullets and brass are correct...you should... Well I do 99.99% of the time....... Get a cartridge that chambers and functions appropriately. " Lee 9MM LUGER/38 SUPER/38 ACP/380 AUTO Taper Crimp Die, overcomes crimp problems caused by poor die design. Offers little or no advantage when used with 1986 or newer Lee Dies as the crimp angle is already a modified taper crimp". I didn't say it... lee did. I have a suspicion that some are using the fcd as swaging device not a crrimping device. The 9mm cartridge tapers slightly it is not a straight walled case.....if something is not right.... Bullet Dia. Case thickness, concentricity of bullet when seating. Can induce bulge usually at or near base of bullet in loaded cartridge. This bulge will cause failure to feed. No enters the fcd....take mis shaped cartridge say oval....now force it through a circle die . It basically forces parts of cartridge back to round... Now the cartridge is now within spec and round. So what gives .... Lead , brass , both.??? Unless you are trying to crimp into cannelure, Whole different conversation. Then yes on fcd. So in a nutshell some think it's a crutch. To fix problems induced in earlier stages of reloading.... Most will agre that swaging will create less accurate cartridge. Edited August 8, 2015 by biglou13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 I use a 38 super sizeing die die on my 9mm. so the FC works great I shoot mostly ipsc, but some ppc and other presiscion, and I still got accuracy at 100 yards with FC, but yes I do agree, some people just dont use it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted August 8, 2015 Share Posted August 8, 2015 So what gives .... Lead , brass , both.??? Both with a heavy crimp IMHO, but brass is springy and lead is not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Did some more chronoing today. Tried 6 different loads with 2 powders and 3 different bullets. Now I see why everyone loves N320 so much. The best SD I got with WST was 14.48 (worst was 24.97), but the N320 gave me 8.71 and 9.88 in the 2 loads I tried. 2 of the 6 loads were very accurate while some looked more like a shotgun pattern I tried some Xtreme 124gr plated bullets and had a problem with them not chambering and damaging the lip of the case, pic below (sorry not a good one). What do you all think caused this, not enough crimp? These rounds all passed chamber checks in both the barrel and the EGW case gauge (which actually worked for these rounds) and I crimped to .378", same as the FMJ and coated lead bullets I tried in other loads. I had this happen on 2 out of the 10 Xtreme rounds I tried shooting. One or both of them happened when chambering from slide lock, don't recall if it was both of them; I know it was at least one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDA Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Throw away your calipers for measuring crimp and get a single edge razor blade. Place the sharp edge along the case and hold it up to the light. If the case has any flare at all to it (not enough crimp) you will see it. If you have too much crimp you will see that too as the edge will roll in. The area of the case where the bullet is presses in should be straight after seating and crimping. No bell left and no turned in edge. Works for me anyway. Edit: Forgot to say to check those two cases in an area other than where they got dinged and see if they are not belled slightly. Edited August 10, 2015 by TDA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Good tip, thanks! Just tried it on some of those rounds and there's still a VERY slight bell to the case; just the smallest amount of light possible is showing through. I shot up all the other loads I made so can't check those as well; although, I'm pretty sure I crimped everything the same, which is why I was surprised I had these problems just with the plated bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 (edited) Those plated bullets are slightly larger than jacketed right? They are .356 compared to .355. Just put a smidge more bell in the case to allow for it. Careful leaving any bell as that can become a stuck round from hell when chambered. Edited August 10, 2015 by Sarge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted August 10, 2015 Share Posted August 10, 2015 Curled in case lip - guessing this happened duriung load process. Did your cleaned cases have a slight ding in the case mouth? If so a 223 case can be used to fix minor dings, pitch anything worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 I'm not sure what the diameter is supposed to be, they came off a prize table, but I measured a few at .355". I'll try more crimp on the rest that I haven't shot yet. I couldn't get a good pic, but the case lips are bent out, not curled in. I did load a few rounds with slightly dented lips, but it looked like the expanding die fixed that and gave a concentric bell, is that the wrong way to handle slightly dented cases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Ok. Keep the fcd. It is a taper crimp. It just also has a post sizing die to remove any problem with the finished round. Don't bother lowering the seat die to crimp. It makes adjusting crimp and seating a pain. Keep it nice and high for seating only. Glad you found the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Thanks, yeah I didn't try crimping with the seating die yet. From what I'm reading it can be a PIA to get adjusted right. Ok another question, since I haven't asked enough yet : I tried 2 different sets of loads, one with WST and one N320 where the only thing I changed was the OAL, all other specs the same. I assumed the load in each pair with the shorter OAL would go slightly faster, right? For both pairs of loads that was not the case. With the N320 I loaded one to 1.135" and one to 1.120", the 1.120" only averaged 3 fps faster so basically the same. With the WST I tried one at 1.145" and one at 1.125". Here the 1.145" load actually averaged 8 fps faster than the 1.125" and both the min and max rounds were faster with the 1.145". These are all 20 shot averages. So what's up with that? I was quite surprised I wasn't getting a bit more velocity out of the shorter OAL loads in each pair. And actually the 1.120" N320 load was dropping slightly more powder on average even though I was using the same settings on the powder drop; I think it was about 0.04gr more on average and that load still wasn't faster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 The velocity differences with the different OALs could involve the timing of the "spike" in the pressure of the load. An early spike would make for a different result from one that occurred after the bullet began its trip down the barrel, milliseconds later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You accidentally learned an important lesson in reloading. More powder or less OAL typically means more pressure but more pressure doesn't always mean more velocity. Often, when working in the higher range of loads rounds will actually plateau in velocity no matter how much powder you put in there. But certainly the pressure keeps sky rocketing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I want to be really corny here and thank you all for your contribution to this thread, especially the OP. I'm setting up my Lee Classic Turret Press right now to hopefully reload by tonight. I've learned a great amount from this thread alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 Very interesting. Thanks for the info! Mike, glad this thread is helpful to other new reloaders. Good luck getting started tonight, let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You can load 9mm quite a bit shorter if you choose - I'm running 1.085" for a Tanfo. At some point shorter will likely have a measurable effect. Might want to check accuracy though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 True. I've gone as low as 1.070 in a cz. But again be careful when people just quote oal. Oal without bullet type is meaningless. There's a big difference in case volume between say a 147rn vs a 124 fp both in a 9mm case at a 1.100 oal... So by all means experiment. Just do it carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Z Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Throw away your calipers for measuring crimp and get a single edge razor blade. Place the sharp edge along the case and hold it up to the light. If the case has any flare at all to it (not enough crimp) you will see it. If you have too much crimp you will see that too as the edge will roll in. The area of the case where the bullet is presses in should be straight after seating and crimping. No bell left and no turned in edge. Works for me anyway. Edit: Forgot to say to check those two cases in an area other than where they got dinged and see if they are not belled slightly. I agree with you on the way you are testing the taper crimp to some degree. I just hold the cartradge by the base and slide my fingers of the other hand up the case. If I can feel a flare I will take the crimp die down an 1/8 turn. Once I don't feal a flare I've got it where I need it. Too much and you bugger the bullet, too little and you loose reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Also remember to drop the charge when you shorten the OAL, a deeper seated bullet generally correlates with higher pressure and possibly higher velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I used one shot lube for 3-4 years and thought it was wonderful until I tried Dillon lube. Wow! Either will be much better than dry but the Dillon stuff is excellent! I would certainly want my SD IN the mid teens at most while striving for even lower. Probably not needed but a good low SD says a lot about your reloading QC. Do you lube just the outside of the case, or the inside as well? And if the inside? How far into the case should I swab, like half way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissionaryMike Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I tumble all my 9 major after loading Is that dry or wet? I only have a wet tumbler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I tumble all my 9 major after loading Is that dry or wet? I only have a wet tumbler. Dry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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