Well, Not a Match Story....

[Duane Thomas]

Actually, it is kind of a match story. I just got back from shooting a match at Marty Hayes' Firearms Academy of Seattle. It was a great format. Everything was shootoffs. There were no classes based on skill level, no divisions of competition based on gun type, everyone shot heads-up. You started out on Stage 1, people had their names picked out of a bowl, then shot against each other, two at a time. Based on the results of the first stage, you got put into a Winners or Losers category. Then it was on to the next stage, on which the Winners shot against other Winners, the Losers against other Losers. If you lost even once you were no longer a Winner, but it was double elimination so you could keep shooting until you lost twice. There were four stages, an El Presidente, a mover, a couple of steel stages. At the end of the match, after the last two Winners shot it out, the winner of the Losers actually got to shoot against the winner of the Winners for the overall win.

Well, to make a long story short, I won the match. On the way back home, I decide to stop by this store I frequent to see if they have in any good new used DVDs. As I'm getting out of the car I see this guy walking toward me, maybe about 40 feet out, and he pings my radar, I instantly think "panhandler" from the way he's making a beeline for me. I get out of the car, then move around to the other side, putting it between him and me. I'd been considering moving around there to raise the passenger side window, that I'd cracked while driving down the highway for a breeze, anyway. Now, in addition to getting that window raised, it also put the entire car between him and me.

So I'm going through the whole unlock the door, roll up the window, close and lock the door again thing when the guy says to me, "Hey man, you got 50 cents?" I reply, "No." At which point I get to have my first-ever experience with an aggressive panhandler. He starts yelling at me, "What? You need to get with the program. Are you with the program?" To which I say, "I'm with my program." All this over the roof of the car.

He starts coming around the rear of the car, and I start walking toward the store's front door. He's going, "Man, I'll hit you so hard you won't know what happened. That's how hard I hit." I'm like, "Whatver, dude." And walk into the store. While listening real hard for the sound of fast footsteps behind me. Which I didn't hear. I wasn't surprised. My read of the situation was that the guy was all talk, and I was right. I still had a pretty good reactionary gap between him and me, more than enough to react if I needed to, but I figured if I walked into the business he wouldn't follow. I figured that was the easiest, fastest way to end the situation before it could possibly escalate. I mean, really, I didn't want to hurt this guy. And it worked.

What really struck me about this whole situation was the humor of it, and just how scared I wasn't. I'm looking at this pathetic excuse for a human being with no front teeth, trying to act tough, trying to scare me, and what was going through my mind was how totally outclassed he was - and he didn't even know it. I was thinking, "Man, you have no idea. I've got a Glock 34 under my vest I just used to win a combat pistol match about an hour ago. And now you think you're going to intimidate me into coughing up 50 cents - OR ELSE." It was just ridiculous.

[Sixgun]

Nice read of the situation, Duane.

To me that's what having a concealed carry permit is all about(if you happened to be carrying). Staying alert and avoiding situations, or handling them in a manner so that you don't need force.

Congrats on the win, too!

Ray

[Duane Thomas]

Thanks, man.

[Run n Gun]

Good story Duane! “All’s well that ends well” eh?

Funny, this is the first post I read here after spending about a half an hour perusing the FAS website. Man that looks like a lot of fun!

WTG on the win too!

Ed

Edited March 14, 2005 by Run n Gun

[wide45]

We used to do a shootoff thing with bowling pins. Same deal with the best of the losers coming back against the best of the winners, winner take all.

Format got changed when it became obvious that a few were losing early so they would get easy pickings on the poorer shooters, and only have to face one winner at the end.

[Duane Thomas]

Format got changed when it became obvious that a few were losing early so they would get easy pickings on the poorer shooters, and only have to face one winner at the end.

What weinies. I'll say though that's a dangerous strategy. It throws away one of your losses - you only get two - and some of the "Losers" out there were pretty darn good. As the match goes on you're going to find yourself shooting against progressively better and better shooters, and it seems silly to me to throw away 1/2 of your "double elimination" when you don't have to. (Of course, my ego would never let me deliberately lose, anyway.)

Good example, yesterday going into the final shootoff against the winner of the Losers, to that point I hadn't lost yet, he'd lost once. So I had to lose twice to be out of it, he only had to lose once. I lost the first of our bouts, but since I still had my full double elimination quota, he had to beat me twice to win. (Losing the first bout of a situation like that is definitely great training for working on your mental equilibrium under stress.) After that, I settled down and won the final bout. But I felt I had a great advantage, going into the final shootoff as the winner of the Winners against the winner of the Losers, having to be beaten twice to be out of it versus his once.

[Merlin Orr]

Nice read of the situation, Duane.

To me that's what having a concealed carry permit is all about(if you happened to be carrying). Staying alert and avoiding situations, or handling them in a manner so that you don't need force.

Congrats on the win, too!

Ray

I like this assessment of the "situation." Ability without arrogance brings confidence and with it the ability to respond in a manner that is not driven by needless pride or fear.

[Duane Thomas]

See, that's something that people who don't like the idea of concealed carry permits don't understand. They think the fact someone knows he's "got the power" means he might move to keep a confrontation going, to the point it escalates into a killing situation, when it could have been solved by backing down. (Sorry for the sexism of using the masculine pronoun there, but the fact is we're talking about male primate behavior here.) They don't realize, when you've got a gun and you know how to use it well, it's easy to back down, or retreat, or move to verbally deescalate matters, because you're coming from a position of strength. Therefore the fact you're moving to keep things non-violent doesn't make you feel like a wimp. The people who might move to keep things going are those who think, "Oh my God, my pride is at stake, if I back down I'll feel like I've compromised my masculinity." When you know - and I don't mean think, you know - that if push comes to shove and only one person walks away from the confrontation it's going to be you, it's easy to back off. Because who needs the hassle of shooting some fool?

[EricW]

DT,

You are very lucky. Something very similar happened to me, but it was with me getting *into* my car. The guy made a beeline for me, and just as I locked the car, he was frantically yanking on the doorhandle of the rear driver's side door. I was pretty sure a crowbar would be coming through the glass next. I stuck the muzzle of the gun against the glass so he could see it, but so it wouldn't be visible to too many others. He actually had to think about it for a bit (apparently death wasn't of great concern), but that finally backed him off. And that's how I drove out of the parking lot...

[carinab]

if push comes to shove and only one person walks away from the confrontation it's going to be you, it's easy to back off. Because who needs the hassle of shooting some fool?

My sentiments exactly! Everytime someone at the school district where I work finds out I'm a shooter and have a CHL (I obviously can't carry at work), they at first freak, then say something like, "Better not mess with you" or an idiotic equivalent. Puh-lease, as if I would cap you for hogging the copy machine - get real! One guy actually said to me, "I bet you'd love a mugger to find you."

I told him I liked my house too much. This confused him until I told him I would have to get a second mortgage, or worse have to sell it, to pay for lawyer fees. After explaining the difference between homicide versus justifiable homicide, the little number tents that the CSI folks throw down, and how grand juries work, he realized what a hassle it would be.

[Kimberkid]

Congrats on winning that fight Duane, cause every fight avoided is a fight won. Plus, now, every night for the rest of your life you can fall asleep hearing the theme song from "Shaft" play in your head..... cause Duane, You a baaad Mutha.... Can ya dig it??

[tightloop]

If you are out and about long enough in an urban area, you will eventually have a similar incident...most of us have...and thank goodness, most of us managed to do most of what Duane did....

[Carmoney]

Duane: Just please tell us that during the match at FAS, Marty didn't have you leashed up with a big friggin' rope like in that magazine article......

[Duane Thomas]

Not during the match per se, but we did have one tactical stage, that did not count for match score, after the match. And in that one Marty did whip out the rope.

[Carmoney]

Marty did whip out the rope.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well Duane......as my other favorite gunwriter would say, "Whatever gets you through the night, Bro...."

(BTW, I like Marty. I knew him before Gila May, when it was just Marty and his Glocks, traveling the country in that old Ford Bronco.)

Mike

[mike.45]

To be honest I thought about replying here and figured what the hell !!

Duane I have been reading you stuff for years so I know what you are saying makes sense- to an outsider though things can seem a little outa wack.

As a non US person who goes through life mostly un-armed, including whilst at work as a cop, despite the fact armed crime and criminal use of firearms is quite high in London, I still read the incident Duane accounts about with a sense of well 'tell the guy he is out of luck and lets read it from there'

This happens every hour of the day in most major cities in the world and its usually dealt with with a '**** off' or 'Sorry mate, see you later'.

I stood in our rear yard today with 30 cocked and locked undercover cops waiting for an armed robbery to go down - these guys and girls were fired up and waiting for action due to the fact they were armed and 'waiting for the off'. Had anyone come up to them, including cops, in that state and asked questions they would have been told to politely F off....

Put those cops into the exact same senario but take away the armed part and when people approach them and it would have been 'can I help you Sir, no problem !!'

What I am trying to say is that when you carry a gun constantly and deal with that personnal responsibility day after day, mundane incidents in life can suddenly appear out of proportion to you because you are armed, and you perceive things differently to the drunk idiot, when the idiot you are talking to has no idea the threat to them if he / she escalates things.

What I am talking about is judgement - most idiot people who ask for money are intimidating, some more than others, some try it on a bit more to see if they can intimidate money out of people - their drugged and drunk minds dont accomodate for CCW's - not that they would ever usually try and imtimidate to the point of violence, as they are drunks not street robbers. If they cross the bridge and start moving to robbery - you move to your Combat Commander ....

I am all for CCW and would carry tomorrow if my country allowed that, but I would be very concerned if I thought the general publics ability to generally deal with life would be effected by this law. I know a lot of beggers in London would get shot, not because they were hugely intimidating but simply because they were simply very annoying !!

I dont mean to cause offence just my point of view as an outsider.

[Duane Thomas]

Actually, that argument has been put forth every time anti-gunners have opposed passage of "shall issue" concealed carry permit reform. "Blood in the streets," "a return to the Wild West," and "shootouts at every backed-up line at the gas station," are a few of the tedious predictions we've heard. It hasn't happened. Having a gun to hand makes the average sane, stable human LESS likely to get into trouble, not more. MORE calm, not less. And frankly, I think "No" is one helluva lot better response, and immensely less likely to escalate the situation to the point of violence that a "polite" (?) "F--k off."

[mike.45]

Duane I am all for CCW !!! I am not at all anti gun !! I believe in peoples right to protect and arm ones self !

The use of 'F' off as compared to NO was an example of a forcefull rebuke - not what I think should be used as I agree that it escillates matters as compared to calming things down.

What I am talking about is ones ability to read situations without the 'I am armed' stigma hanging over ones head. I know you are well versed in this but I also know a lot of other people are not.

My point is its all very well being armed but a little street common sense to be able to read a situation also goes a long way, and if I was a betting person, I bet a lot of people accidently escillate things unintentionally because they dont have that street sense as they are normal people going about normal lives, and dont often have to deal with the sort of peple we are talking about.

M

[Duane Thomas]

Duane I am all for CCW !!! I am not at all anti gun !! I believe in peoples right to protect and arm ones self !

Oh, I never thought you were.

What I am talking about is ones ability to read situations without the 'I am armed' stigma hanging over ones head.

I don't really see it as a stigma. I think it's a knowledge that sobers one.

I know you are well versed in this but I also know a lot of other people are not.

Unfortunately, that's probably true.

[Flexmoney]

An armed society is a ________ __________.

[Carmoney]

Flex, you got that in just before I could.

Note that fundamental truth was penned by Robert Heinlein, an American writer.

Mike