Czman Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 (edited) One of my Czechmates - now with over 7K rounds in it, rattles when I quickly pick up the gun. My other CM which is brand new, does not rattle at all. The rattle specifically is from the fit of the barrel to the slide, and not from the slide to the frame. Flawless otherwise. Is this normal? Does it affect accuracy over time? My Colt 1911 use to rattle similarly but it was the slide to frame fit in that case. My Wilson Combat CQB Elite 1911 has no rattle or slack at all after nearly 5K rounds and is my gold standard for pistol machining and fit. Appreciate any help based on any CZ experiences. Edited July 7, 2015 by Czman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRanta Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Is your comp loose? Try to tighten it one round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 This is with the barrel nut. I have checked the turns - perfect, cannot go any more based on barrel length. Also checked with my spare barrel, same behavior. The source of rattling is the front to back motion of the slide before the spring kicks in - perhaps 0.05 mm, just as a guess. I don't get the rattle with hammer down since the hammer applies some pressure on the slide. Update: I have ruled out almost everything except something between the slide and frame. The barrel has a wiggle but that's not the cause. When the slide moves back and forth, the barrel is moving with it. I used a different barrel (spare that comes with the kit), recoil spring, a different (and new) recoil plug, new slide stop - I was able to recreate the same issue. Which leaves me with the slide to frame fit. There is no unusual peening on the slide stop hole on the frame, or where the recoil plug contacts the dust cover. The only slightly unexpected (to me) wear is on the breech face, on the side that is away from the extractor. The barrel contacts this area and it is showing some visible wear - it has been impacted thousands of times. I am stumped... Continuing to think thru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 My mag release rattles a bit after I tweaked the spring up. Sure it's not coming from that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Definitely not the mag release - it's the sound of the slide moving back and forth on the frame without any spring engagement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Update: it looks like the issue is with the frame, where the guide rod sits. The guide rod is not sitting correctly, so there is some rotational slack which allows the slide to move back and forth on the frame, causing the rattle. To confirm its a frame issue - I put the slide on the frame of my newer CM and there was absolutely no rattle. I was not able to do the reverse test with my new slide and older frame because of fit. So unfortunately calling CZ USA tomorrow am - the CM needs to go back to the factory to be inspected and fixed. I just hope this is not a defect that comes out after several thousand rounds in my newer CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 19, 2015 Author Share Posted July 19, 2015 Filled out warranty form finally, waiting for factory to respond. Interesting thing - i can stop the rattle by placing cotton from a q tip in the frame where the guide rod rests.. but ideally this is never necessary... i have been shooting 9 mm minor in Limited using factory springs...will see what factory says.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share Posted July 27, 2015 Update from factory - gun is according to spec and rattling is just normal wear! Recommended a buffer to reduce the rattling. This is very puzzling. NONE of my other guns (any brand, any style) has a slide that rattles front to back in battery. My Colt 1911 was a rattler with a loose slide to frame fit side to side but not front to back. I firmly believe this is a design defect that can be masked by a buffer or cotton from a qtip - but seriously? In a gun that retails for 3,300 in free states and lot more in MA if you can find one!?? I think not, but not sure what recourse I have. I know the TS Orange is shipping with this buffer - perhaps CZ is hiding the design defect by building in the buffer as a disposable part. Any other thoughts from experts here?? I am pissed at the CZ QC and response in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my00wrx1 Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 Mine does the same. If I grab the comp and wiggle it I can see some movement between the slide and frame. How does the accuracy compare between your 2 pistols? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 28, 2015 Author Share Posted July 28, 2015 Mine does the same. If I grab the comp and wiggle it I can see some movement between the slide and frame. How does the accuracy compare between your 2 pistols? To be clear, it's not the side to side barrel / slide wiggle - which both my CM's have, this is front to back slide movement while in battery with hammer cocked. Honestly, as I mentioned in another thread - I am getting the typical CZ ragged hole at 45 feet with both my TS but have yet to do that consistently with either CM. I am convinced TS will outshoot CM especially with normal wear. $ucks to pay so much more for a gun that now feels less robustly engineered on many counts. I think CM will die out, the new TS Orange might be the better path for Limited -IF they have engineered it correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZ85Combat Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 My Czechmate has the same movement. setup as Open Gun it will flat out shoot, 25yards it will shoot less then 1" groups slow fire. I have not shot it setup as a limited gun. I do know the faster you push the bullets above 1280fps the better the gets & get really good above 1350fps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Original barrel or spare barrel? Is the barrel fitted correctly? Lower lug to the frame?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted July 29, 2015 Author Share Posted July 29, 2015 Origina Original barrel or spare barrel? Is the barrel fitted correctly? Lower lug to the frame?? Original barrel, likely fitted correctly. I escalated and was able to speak with a different GS. Very pleasant and responsive. His feed back: 1. This is how CM's are built - they will end up with a rattle but gun is sound mechanically 2. Agreed that it's not reasonable to have to use a buffer - although still a good thing for practice trips (not match or SD) 3. Agreed that the rattle could be annoying especially price of gun / quality expected 4. He has chamfered the guide rod head on one side and feels this takes out the tiny slack caused by how the rod was seating, and eliminates the rattle I will post pics and test results once I get the gun back - but this encouraging. And if this fix holds, looks like it's a simple remedy that could be done by an LGS. Much happier with CZ response this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyal Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Don't know if this will help, I have a old Tactical Sport, it has been used by me every chance I get so has had many rounds though it. I was having problems getting the CZ Steal guide rod to fit, in fact it just didn't fit the gun at all, I was force to use the standard plastic guide rod. I have tried a few but finialy found one that works. DPM Recoil system was the one that works for me, I had a problem with one I received but the owner went out of his way to help me on Skype, and I can not say enough good things about his customer service. He was a pleasure to deal with, and so far his product has been great for me too. I am getting much faster follow up shoot now with this system. On my gun (9mm) it has a cap that replaces the plastic factory part, I think it improves the looks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balmo Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Origina Original barrel or spare barrel? Is the barrel fitted correctly? Lower lug to the frame?? Original barrel, likely fitted correctly. I escalated and was able to speak with a different GS. Very pleasant and responsive. His feed back: 1. This is how CM's are built - they will end up with a rattle but gun is sound mechanically 2. Agreed that it's not reasonable to have to use a buffer - although still a good thing for practice trips (not match or SD) 3. Agreed that the rattle could be annoying especially price of gun / quality expected 4. He has chamfered the guide rod head on one side and feels this takes out the tiny slack caused by how the rod was seating, and eliminates the rattle I will post pics and test results once I get the gun back - but this encouraging. And if this fix holds, looks like it's a simple remedy that could be done by an LGS. Much happier with CZ response this time. Do you have to forcefully move the CM to make it rattle or just tipping it over and it already rattles? What gunsmithing did your LGS propose for the CM? I too would be disconcerted if I had spent a lot of money on a CM and it rattles easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalmBeach1 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Don't know if this will help, I have a old Tactical Sport, it has been used by me every chance I get so has had many rounds though it. I was having problems getting the CZ Steal guide rod to fit, in fact it just didn't fit the gun at all, I was force to use the standard plastic guide rod. I have tried a few but finialy found one that works. DPM Recoil system was the one that works for me, I had a problem with one I received but the owner went out of his way to help me on Skype, and I can not say enough good things about his customer service. He was a pleasure to deal with, and so far his product has been great for me too. I am getting much faster follow up shoot now with this system. On my gun (9mm) it has a cap that replaces the plastic factory part, I think it improves the looks too. Is this one for a TS? Can't see to find it on their site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted August 1, 2015 Author Share Posted August 1, 2015 Origina Original barrel or spare barrel? Is the barrel fitted correctly?Lower lug to the frame?? Original barrel, likely fitted correctly. I escalated and was able to speak with a different GS. Very pleasant and responsive. His feed back: 1. This is how CM's are built - they will end up with a rattle but gun is sound mechanically 2. Agreed that it's not reasonable to have to use a buffer - although still a good thing for practice trips (not match or SD) 3. Agreed that the rattle could be annoying especially price of gun / quality expected 4. He has chamfered the guide rod head on one side and feels this takes out the tiny slack caused by how the rod was seating, and eliminates the rattle I will post pics and test results once I get the gun back - but this encouraging. And if this fix holds, looks like it's a simple remedy that could be done by an LGS. Much happier with CZ response this time. Do you have to forcefully move the CM to make it rattle or just tipping it over and it already rattles? What gunsmithing did your LGS propose for the CM? I too would be disconcerted if I had spent a lot of money on a CM and it rattles easily. Just normal action of lifting up will cause the rattle. The guide rod chamfering was done by an experienced GS at CZ. I should have it back in a few weeks since I am traveling - and will post pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czman Posted August 29, 2015 Author Share Posted August 29, 2015 Fixed!! CZ USA master smith added a chamfer - see attached pic to the guide rod. Important to position With this all slack and rattle is taken out. Simple fix. Feels good to have my CM back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now