Focused Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 According to the new IDPA rules, the SSP division has a maximum weight of 39 ounces including the magazine. There is a discrepancy in an interview with Bill Wilson. He stated that the S&W 5906 was legal, but the S&W catalog shows that gun weighs 38.3 oz empty. If this is true then the stated weight in SSP should be WITHOUT a magazine. Would that also mean that all the division weights should be gun only? From the new IDPA Rulebook: Stock Service Pistol Division (SSP) Handguns permitted for use in this division must: D. Have a maximum unloaded weight of 39oz., including an empty magazine. (Will be effective January 25, 2006) Bill Wilson interview in the IDPA Tactical Journal, Volume 9, Issue 1: “We drew the line at the Smith & Wesson Model 5906. It’s an all steel 9mm, and it’s about the heaviest gun people are likely to carry concealed” Smith & Wesson catalog: 5906TSW Caliber: 9mm Material: Stainless Steel Weight Empty: 38.3 ounces Email from S&W Customer Service: Q. Does "weight empty" mean with or without a magazine inserted in the 5906TSW? A. No magazine Q. What is the weight of a magazine for the 5906TSW? A. It’s in the area of 3oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I think the answer you're looking for is CAN BW contradict the rulebook, and I think we know that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Be real careful with S&W published weights. They are usually on the heavy side rather than actual weight. Does anyone expect to see a scale at a match? Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer-lock Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Be real careful with S&W published weights. They are usually on the heavy side rather than actual weight.Does anyone expect to see a scale at a match? Regards. I believe that there was a consensus in one of these threads that weighing the gun was the only reasonable option anyone has. Published weights are similar to “curb weight” for cars. Much depends on how the thing is tricked out. geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 but the S&W catalog shows that gun weighs 38.3 oz empty. If this is true then the stated weight in SSP should be WITHOUT a magazine. The "weight unloaded" shown in gun catalogs is with an empty magazine in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 The 5906TSW has a rail added under the dust cover, the original 5906 did not. ^ link courtesy of gunbroker.com That could be the source of confusion. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Perez Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 here is a fixed sighted 5906. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Why not just weigh the silly gun, then mill out the reliefs under the grips until you make the weight limit? You could also do some sneaky stuff underneath the slide. There's a hell of a lot of extra meat under there. Who's going to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Why not just weigh the silly gun, then mill out the reliefs under the grips until you make the weight limit? You could also do some sneaky stuff underneath the slide. There's a hell of a lot of extra meat under there. Who's going to know? Well you would.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorTed Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Bill Wilson contradict himself/the rulebook? Say it ain't so! It just couldn't be! Sorry, just got out of class, sarcasm 101. Looking at the other side of the coin concerning the question of lightening an "overweight" gun, you bring your newly lightened Super Whiz-Bang to a match and someone says that they know that gun is over weight, but no scale to find out. Now What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Super Whiz-Bang to a match and someone says that they know that gun is over weight, but no scale to find out. Now What? Switch Sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 but the S&W catalog shows that gun weighs 38.3 oz empty. If this is true then the stated weight in SSP should be WITHOUT a magazine. The "weight unloaded" shown in gun catalogs is with an empty magazine in place. Sorry, Not always true. I went through this a year ago over a Kimber TLE/RL (see HERE). I found that Sig lists weights without mags (particularly pertinent in the case of the GSR because with a mag it is over weight for CDP). I found that both Kimber and Wilson at that time listed some with a mag and some without a mag, and didn't usually note which is which. And, if you call them (whoever) the customer service people have no idea if the published weight is w or w/o a mag. Furthermore, they think you are a bit strange for asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorTed Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Super Whiz-Bang to a match and someone says that they know that gun is over weight, but no scale to find out. Now What? Switch Sports Or better yet, just get a 625 and shoot ESR right? Then you can be another sandclipping moonbagger. hehehe. Ted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Then you can be another sandclipping moonbagger. hehehe.Ted. As long as it isn't a Mooning Sandclipper Hope all is well Ted, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COF Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 " Super Whiz-Bang to a match and someone says that they know that gun is over weight, but no scale to find out. Now What? " Benefit of the doubt always goes to the shooter. In the lack of evidence to the contrary, the gun is legal. If the folks running the match don't have a scale to weigh with, they haven't got anything to gripe about. Along those lines - if I was going to use a scale to weigh guns at a sanctioned match, I'd make dang sure the thing was calibrated. Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 MAYBE WE SHOULD ADD A SSP OPEN CLASS, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 MAYBE WE SHOULD ADD A SSP OPEN CLASS, too uspsa-like. how about SSP heavyweight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 SSP Tactical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TractorTed Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Here's a novel idea, how about SSP with no weight limit? Nah, it would never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Actually, it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkelly Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 Yea Ted, Didn't you know that you can't conceal a hand gun that weights that much, unless it's a single action of course? Respectfully, jkelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted March 10, 2005 Share Posted March 10, 2005 I found that Sig lists weights without mags (particularly pertinent in the case of the GSR because with a mag it is over weight for CDP). Haven't seen the SIG catalog listing the GSR, but in every other SIG catalog I've ever seen they do indeed list the weight of the gun without magazine, but they also give you the weight of the magazine. Why they do it that way instead of just listing one all-up number is beyond me, but the bottom line is that it's not terribly hard, given those two numbers, to figure out the total unloaded weight. Having said that, I tend to take gun companies' published weights with a grain of salt. If I'm discussing a gun's weight in an article, and it's just not worth it to me to weigh the thing, I'll always say, "According to XYZ Gun Co. literature, the 9m Whizbang weigh XX.X ounces unloaded," instead of just saying, "The gun weighs...." Any gun on which it's important to know its real weight - my carry/match gun, for instance - I use a postal scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted March 11, 2005 Share Posted March 11, 2005 I found that Sig lists weights without mags (particularly pertinent in the case of the GSR because with a mag it is over weight for CDP). Haven't seen the SIG catalog listing the GSR, but in every other SIG catalog I've ever seen they do indeed list the weight of the gun without magazine, but they also give you the weight of the magazine. Why they do it that way instead of just listing one all-up number is beyond me, but the bottom line is that it's not terribly hard, given those two numbers, to figure out the total unloaded weight. Having said that, I tend to take gun companies' published weights with a grain of salt. If I'm discussing a gun's weight in an article, and it's just not worth it to me to weigh the thing, I'll always say, "According to XYZ Gun Co. literature, the 9m Whizbang weigh XX.X ounces unloaded," instead of just saying, "The gun weighs...." Any gun on which it's important to know its real weight - my carry/match gun, for instance - I use a postal scale. Here is sig's web listing. The show weight with both with and without the mag. On others they give weight w/o the mag + mag weight, still others they give w/o the mag only I think the marketing folks gaffed big with the GSR and some of the strange listings were an attempt to cover it up. Sig had ads in the IDPA tac Journal (that I think mentioned CDP) for a gun that wasn't legal for CDP. They had a published weight of 39.2oz which is below the limit of 41. When you ad the mag, however, it goes to 41.6oz, too heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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