Jim Norman Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 In the beginning... There was Shooting, using a "Practical" handgun. And it was good. Then there was innovation and Categories were brought about. Innovation continued and Limited came into being. Revolver was a category of limited. Fast forwarding to today, we have 5 Divisions. Open, Limited,Limied-10, Production and Revolver. There is serious talk of another division, Single Stack. Is this good for USPSA? I don't know. Production surely is. Revolver, not too sure, we rarely get enough people to even pay a divison winer, let alone a Class winner. But, I'd not do away with it! IF we are to have a SS divison, I think we should start it as a Category in L-10. It should be limited to true single cloulm magazines guns. If the gun will accept a double coulum, you can't use it here. That is no Glock 17, with 10 round mags, no mag convertors for Paras and S*I types. Period. One of the big problems I see is a dilution of shooters. It is not good for morale to hold a match where 30 people shoot and only three people are eligable for prizes. Remember, we have: Division Winner High Master High A High B High C High D Just to pay this all in one division takes 16 shooters 3 in each class, plus one. Per Division! That means we need 80 shooters evenly distributed just to pay all the current classes. Add in SS and we now would need 96! I point all this out to illustrate that we can easily have so may shooters that we can recognize none but the divisional winners! I don't think we necessarily need to pay out or give awards, but if we add in SS and only a very few shootit, we will have another division similar to revolver where you go out, pay your entry and likely shoot against yorself or on occasion two others. I would make the overall placement in a match an offical score. Not that I would pay it, but I would do this to make sure that the scoring never changes to take the ability for clubs to publish the combined scores. It is here that an L10 shooter can see how he does against Dave S shooting his Glock, how a revolver shooter did against a production shooter and so on. We all shoot the same stages, true enough we are shooting against only those in our own divisions, but I for one want to know how I do against others that run the same course. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 well stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Jim, Coming from a converted Limited shooter to a Revo shooter here is my point of View take it or leave it... no matter but thought it might help. At all the local matches I attend but one they score for overall finish fine by me as I am Usually the ONLY revo shooter anyway...Plus I like to see where I fit against the guys around here! At a Section match or bigger where there should be other shooters (sometimes there is sometimes there isn't but it is getting better) I don't care where I stand against the Autoblasters I am NOT there to shoot against them!!! Back when I shot Limited I thought the EXACT same way.......Local match overall... Major match....Limited only!! I think (see signature below) there are enough differences between divisions to separate them at Majors but at the local level.... Let's just shoot !!! everyone has their friendly rivalries anyway Maybe That muddied the water up a little more. Hop/SAM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Any local match that doesn't provide an "unoffical" overall match finish list should start to do so. I don't care what division you and your buddies shoot, you want to know how you did against them, even if you shoot open and he shoots production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Back when I shot Limited I thought the EXACT same way.......Local match overall...Major match....Limited only!! Ditto. Though when Mike V. or Taran is shooting (Limited), I tend to not worry too much about what the Open winner's (i.e. Jojo's more often than not) score is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 To clarify my original post. We DO provide overal order of finish (Combined) as well as combined stage results. We pay only on Divisional finish. So, Even if a Revolver shooter (Sorry Scott) were to win overall, so long as he were the only revolver shooter, he'd not qualify for a divisional award. I am not advocating that we pay top down on combined scores, that would essentially remove divisions from the equation. I am only saying that the ability to provide this shooter serevice should be made offical so that it cannot disappear. Jim Nomran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I wish the uspsa score site allowed posting of the combined overall. With our local matches. The only place our scores are posted is on web and it is pain to open up five different division and trying to figure out how you did compared to somebody you know when they are in a different division. Beside I like shooting against someone else. Adds to level of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 All / Combinded scoring is available using EzWinScore On the Results page click the FINAL and ALL radio buttons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I do it for all the matches in the section at: http://www.texassouthsection.com/Matches.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 All / Combinded scoring is available using EzWinScoreOn the Results page click the FINAL and ALL radio buttons True enough, Tom. But unfortunately, USPSA's site won't let you upload the Combined results. Maybe one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would not expect that to ever happen UNLESS Everyone went to their Area Director and insisted. The problem is: Sometimes the order of finish changes from the 'By Division' report and the 'Combined' report. This is beacuse a different Stage High Hit Factor was used to calculate the stage points. People don't understand So they call Sedro Woolley and complain about the error in EzWinScore. The math can't be explained easily over the phone or in writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Is combined scoring truly a problem? I'm talking old fashioned lump every competitor together, and score 'em. Then break out the divisions if needed. So the stage winner sets the high hit factor for all the divisions, I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I had a brand new shooter at our match this past weekend. He was shooting along with his Glock...loading 10 rounds. He asked if he should have loaded up the mags...he thought he was shooting against the Open guns and such. I explained how a USPSA match is actually five matches in one...how you are only going against guys with similar equipment. That made him feel a LOT better. Having an Open gun set the high hit factor would not be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I know when I was shooting Production I only looked at the overall results for local matches. I would have loved to see them for the major matches as well. In my opinion it is just another way to gauge yourself against the field....I'll be much more proud of myself shooting production to beat a M open shooter rather than a M prod shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyb Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 Why don't we just go back to no divisions and only have overall scoring with every shooter together? Why hassle with so many divisions? We can stop arguments about Limited 10 and singlestacks. Production can use full mags since the AWB died and drop the stupid behind the armpits rule. Also revolvers with scopes have a chance to do better. 3 GUN will be simpler too. Just shoot what ya brung, winner take all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I believe the equipment wars of the 80's and 90's answers that question Randy. Not everyone has the desire to shoot open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted March 8, 2005 Share Posted March 8, 2005 I have not against the lots of divisions, besides I think alot of people like it. But why can't the overall be posted to the USPsa site for local matches. Other than more storage on the server, what's the harm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted March 9, 2005 Share Posted March 9, 2005 Having an Open gun set the high hit factor would not be fair. Open does not always set the high hit factor. What is unfair about another division setting the high hit factor? It is just a number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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