randy01 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I'm thinking about building an open gun to compete in open division at our local pin-shooting matches. I was thinking about building it in .45ACP. The thing is: is this the best calliber for what I want to do with it or should I build it in something else. And does a comp give a lot with .45ACP, becouse it is a low pressure cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Ahhh....pin guns! Now you're talking my language. This IPSC stuff is just something to do for awhile until pin-shooting makes a comeback! Although 10mm can do the job, I'd recommend a .45 to give you some heavy bullet options (the 255-gr. bullets sold for use in .45 Colt work great on pins, if you can get your 1911 to function properly with them, which is not always easy). The "gas vent" compensator effect will be somewhat minimal with anything in .45 ACP, but a big heavy full-profile comp out front is what you want, in order to dampen the recoil of those heavy pin loads (keep in mind you're going to want 215+ power factor). I'd recommend you set it up so the front sight is on the comp, rather than on the slide. Clark used to sell a comp kit with the sight out front like that, I still have one down in the basement somewhere, although I fit a regular 5" barrel to my Caspian for use in single-stack matches. I firmly believe that for pin-shooting, you want plenty of weight on the gun. I've seen everything from mercury recoil suppressors strapped under the dust cover to oversize grips made from solid brass used to add weight to the gun. Also--no matter what you do, real pin loads are hard on 1911s. So do yourself a favor and don't get too carried away spending big bucks on a pin gun, because they do have a fixed life expectancy with that kind of hammering. Good sights, good trigger, beavertail, grip tape on the front strap, big ol' comp out front, utter reliability and hot, hot ammo--that's all you need. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammo_burner21 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 pin guns!!!! I'm right there with you Carmoney. Pin shooting is dieing around here. Glad to see theres still some people around that shoot them. Where do you guys shoot them? Pin guns don't need alot of money put into them. I use a Springfield .45 strate from the factory. It has a 3 port fatboy comp on it. Personally I don't think you need all the extra weights on these guns. A standard 1911 with a scope and a comp will do you fine.They do take a beating like Carmoney said and they may need fitted every now and then. For loads, if you shoot the Second Chance style setups I've found the 255gr and 215gr bullets work the best loaded up to a 215pf If your looking for a great gunsmith Gary Natale www.gansguns.com is the best that I have found for pin shooting. He knows how pin shooting is played and can answer any problems you have. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I have used the 255s & on bowling pins, they act like , well, bowling balls. Agree that a big, nose heavy .45 works well since you are swinging over a small arc. If you do opt for the 10mm, try to find some good 200 grn loads (VV N105 comes to mind) or possible the 220 grn cast bullets. Regards, D.C. Johnson www.shootersparadise.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Hmmm. weird that I saw this post today, I was shooting my Pin gun at the range today...... First of all, .45 all the way. You need a 195PF or higher to reliably take the heavy pins off of the table with cushion. I would first call Randy Hollowbush in Topton, PA. Last time I was in his shop he had several nice single stack pin guns on consignment....There are a lot of wayward comped .45s that can be had for a song out there since the big pin matches have fizzled, but you cant have mine! I also have a comped 10mm, and I think it is the ultimate, but it is a safe queen now. Let me know if you need load info. DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcschwenke Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I'm with these guys also. 200+ power factor is a must at big matches, like Second Chance was. Ed Brown made a very good 4 star comp and barrel combo. I put the sight on it like mentioned above, then drilled and tapped the bottom of it to add brass weights. Paul Scarlotta (sp?) took a picture of it and posted it in gun games several years ago in the article about second chance. I used an Auto-Ordnance gun. Still the most reliable gun I own and won plenty with it at matches. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Balko Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 While I was never more than a very casual pin shooter, and I've never shot one of these guns, what about considering the 50cal setup that is available now in the 1911 platform. I've only read an article or two on this creature, but it might be at least worth investigating if you're going to build something that's "pin gun exotic" and would have the budget to feed that monster. You need a BIG hole in that barrel if you're going to throw a bowling ball through it! It is a new concept that should really maximize that pf equation. Open division is as good a place as any for new concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXXman Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I went to a fun shoot a couple weeks ago at Four Corners in Salem, OR where we shot at pins set up like they would be in a bowling match at 25 yards (among other things). I don't think that is exactly the type of pin shooting you all are talking about, but it was fun to shoot something that fell over. Anyway, someone had a 500 Smith and took nine of the pins off the table with two shots, pretty amazing gun. I just had my little stock 1991 Colt with 230gr Winchester white box. I can't wait to do it again. -Shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 500 S&W......two shots .....with 2 minute between shots??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonM Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Even though I have shot pins only with my friends and haven't had a chance to attend to that kind of competition I have an idea for you. I'm assuming that you compete in practical shooting also, so the gun I'm thinking about would serve two purposes. I have an STI Edge .40 myself and I almost did this myself a while back. STI or SVI will most likely build you a pistol you can can use in limited class and in ipn shooting; a .40 with an additional 10mm barrel with comp. The frame should be drilled as you mentioned you intend to use a scope. Even if they don't deliver the whole package I' m sure you'll find a smith who fits a second barrel for your pistol. The same mags work for both calibers and the only thing you need to change, besides the barrel of course, is probably a heavier spring for that 10. Power isn't going to be problem and the pressure of the 10 is greater than with a .45 so the comp should work better also. I'm sure the .45 is a nice setup, but since there is some intelligent use for a great cartridge like full power 10mm people should jump on it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXXman Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 500 S&W......two shots .....with 2 minute between shots??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Brad (welcome aboard ), Ever shoot pins with your USPSA Open gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I shot pins with a 50 AE Desert Eagle a time or two. They fly really nicely and the spectators love it. Recoil recovery time is a problem.. Were I going to use a DE on pins, I'd look hard at getting a .357 Mag working with some extra-heavy bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perf40 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I use an STI Grandmaster in 40 S&W. I seat either a 180gr. or 200gr. bullet to 1.240". I use VV N350 from 7.6 to 8.2. With 180's 7.6 gives a 200 PF. 8.2 produces a 214PF. I found 214PF a bit of overkill. As far as I'm concerned any load that will take a pin off the top shelf without hitting the bottom shelf on the way down is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 The power factor necessary to be successful at pin-shooting really is dependent on the match conditions--will the pins be new, or lumpy old used pins? Steel tables or wood? If steel, clean or rusty? Classic flat tables or tiered? All of these factors can make a drastic difference in "pin action." Sherwyn Greenfield is the only guy I've ever seen using a .38 Super open gun on the main event at big matches with any sort of decent results (open guns are perfect for 9-pin, though), and that was using heavy bullets, on clean steel tables, on nice new pins. Normally, you can't get away with it. In 1993 at Second Chance everybody complained that the pins looked fine, but seemed to move slugglishly and heavily when shot. As the story goes, the pins had been stored in big metal bins outside all year, and had been rained on repeatedly, becoming a bit heavy and waterlogged in the process. People just weren't getting good action on the pins. My 215++ p.f. revolver loads took them off just fine, though, and I wound up in second place overall that year. (Ken Tapp's loads also worked fine, obviously...) When in doubt, more power is always better. The mantra of the successful pin-shooter is "Five for Five." On tiered tables, the top pins drop to the ground faster than the bottom pins can slide and fall, so good shooters always shoot a top pin last. If that last top pin even so much as clicks against the bottom level on its way down, it adds .2 to the time (which is a full second over a "best 5 of 6" main event format), minimum. As stated above, I believe in the 215 p.f. rule in order to give decent pin action over various match conditions that might be encountered. With wood tables, you almost can't have too much power. Much friction must be overcome to get the pins on the ground. For wood tables, .45 ACPs need to be loaded up as hot as safely possible. I'm heading out to Nebraska to shoot pins on Sunday (found two clubs that are holding local matches out there!!) Man, I can't wait to get back in the game!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 The old Kansas City Midwest Pinblasters match had a side event where they set up 10 pins bowling alley style, and allowed any sort of firearm to be used. The winner one year cleared the table in one mightly blast, pulling both triggers of an old 10 gauge side-by-side shotgun at the same time. The first "pin match" I ever attended, in Goffstown NH back in the '80s, was out of bowling pins that day, so they substituted chunks of pressure-treated 4x4 lumber. With particle-board tables, it took plenty of hardball to coax those puppies off the back. Maybe that's where I developed my taste for hot pin loads...... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ammo_burner21 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 Flex, Thank Kyle. I used my 38super open gun when i was in C class and did very well with it. Then moved up to a .45 in B and A class. I still use the super for 10 pin and 9 pin with my USPSA load. Works great for the option tables. The 45 is still king tho! Were are all you people shooting these pin matches? Everthing died out around here. I really miss it. Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I had decent success with 147gr Golden Sabers in a Super w/lots of VVN105 @ ~200 PF on our local tables (RIP), but they were a little on the small side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aXXman Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I shot pins with a 50 AE Desert Eagle a time or two. Did you use the Egret? Ok, so a new video camera got the best of me...One-Footed ISO .50 AE (WMV, 1.3MB) Plus the video that must never be shown to the uninitiated (750K WMV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I shot pins with a 50 AE Desert Eagle a time or two. Did you use the Egret? Sadly, no. The awesome recoil control available with the Egret would have been nice... and since it was man-on-man pins, my opposition may have ended up on his a$$, but alas I was uninitiated in the finer tactico-ninja arts at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcschwenke Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I went to an indoor PPC match a couple years ago where a guy was shooting his Desert Eagle in 50 AE along side others. First timers had a rude awakening! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 4, 2005 Share Posted March 4, 2005 I like the double barrel 10 gauge approach..sounds like fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 I like the double barrel 10 gauge approach..sounds like fun. Funny part about it was this pair of brothers who brought the 10ga. up from Wichita--neither one of them coulda weighed more than 150 lbs. Really fun to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 The first "pin match" I ever attended, in Goffstown NH back in the '80s, was out of bowling pins that day, so they substituted chunks of pressure-treated 4x4 lumber. aaiight... from the archives, here's photographic proof: Goffstown 4x4 lumber match And yes, that is Harpo Marx shooting with his eyes closed.... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 5, 2005 Share Posted March 5, 2005 There are/were some matches around here that shot "block-heads"...they shot chunks of wood that were bigger than 6x6. When they got chewed up they would soak up rounds like a sponge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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