Fastest Bill Drill

[d_striker]

Take a look at his avatar .... The hair on top of his head his Photoshopped in ... Besides, if you actually looked like that would you use that pic as your Avatar ...

Not that I picked up he was a full-time troll ... I, like you, just figured he was another of a growing number of clueless, 9-year 'C' class experts who post on forums ...

This forum needs an 'ignore' feature.

Edited February 18, 2016 by d_striker

[Jake Di Vita]

It has one.

[d_striker]

Where?

[Jake Di Vita]

Click on your name upper right hand corner, then manage ignore prefs.

[-Ace-]

Sub .10 splits is possible with a production gun. I've hit .08-.09's in matches with a CZ. But personal best of 1.26 bill drill. So again, it is possible, but it's probably not repeatable, and most likely not on command.

[Jake Di Vita]

I'd love to see a video with .08 or .09 splits with a production gun if you've got one. Shouldn't be too hard to replicate in practice if you've done it several times in matches.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[-Ace-]

It's not hard to replicate. When I'm practicing or at least shooting some what regularly.

Why do you doubt it with a production gun? Have you shot a tuned CZ trigger in SA? Reset, break and travel is very similar to any of my Limcat or SV open or limited guns with 1.5lb triggers.

[Jake Di Vita]

Never seen anyone do a .08 with a DA/SA gun. I've pulled sub .10s with LTD or Open guns, but never even close with a Prod gun. Maybe all the Prod guns I've shot just had trash triggers, which I suppose is possible. It's about 20% doubt and 80% curiosity for wanting to see it.

[Onepocket]

I would love to see a video of a 1.26.

[motosapiens]

Maybe all the Prod guns I've shot just had trash triggers,

that seems likely. the SA mode of my cz production guns is pretty much the same as my competition 1911's.

I can't hit fast splits with either one tho. I'm chock full of slow-twitch muscles and .15 seems to be about my limit.

Edited February 29, 2016 by motosapiens

[Jake Di Vita]

Maybe all the Prod guns I've shot just had trash triggers,

that seems likely. the SA mode of my cz production guns is pretty much the same as my competition 1911's.

I can't hit fast splits with either one tho. I'm chock full of slow-twitch muscles and .15 seems to be about my limit.

It's possible, but at the same time I still haven't ever seen someone pulling sub .10 with a production gun. If someone could point me to a video, great. I'll be more willing to accept it once I see it. Until then, I remain very dubious.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[motosapiens]

Maybe all the Prod guns I've shot just had trash triggers,

that seems likely. the SA mode of my cz production guns is pretty much the same as my competition 1911's.

I can't hit fast splits with either one tho. I'm chock full of slow-twitch muscles and .15 seems to be about my limit.

It's possible, but at the same time I still haven't ever seen someone pulling sub .10 with a production gun. If someone could point me to a video, great. I'll be more willing to accept it once I see it. Until then, I remain very dubious.

Maybe production shooters are worrying about hitting the targets and calling their shots instead of learning circus tricks.

[Jake Di Vita]

Maybe all the Prod guns I've shot just had trash triggers,

that seems likely. the SA mode of my cz production guns is pretty much the same as my competition 1911's.

I can't hit fast splits with either one tho. I'm chock full of slow-twitch muscles and .15 seems to be about my limit.

It's possible, but at the same time I still haven't ever seen someone pulling sub .10 with a production gun. If someone could point me to a video, great. I'll be more willing to accept it once I see it. Until then, I remain very dubious.

Maybe production shooters are worrying about hitting the targets and calling their shots instead of learning circus tricks.

You are getting very tiresome to talk to. First off, don't act like "hitting the targets and calling their shots" has to exclude doing it at a very high rate of speed. Regardless, that isn't even almost what this is about. This is about potential limit of human function ability. If you don't want to discuss that, you are probably in the wrong thread. Secondly, these "circus tricks" go a long way towards actually producing formidable match skills, which is evidently something you don't yet grasp. Having a higher skill ceiling is always going to be a good thing. If your earlier assertion is correct in that there isn't necessarily a trigger speed difference between SAO and DA/SA guns, I expect to be able to find at least one video illustrating that or I'm going to call your claim bunk. I haven't called it bunk though, I've only asked for a shred of evidence. It's on you to reinforce your earlier statement with that evidence. Instead, you're just reaching for reasons that explain away the lack of proof. Weak.

[motosapiens]

You are getting very tiresome to talk to.

You make some good points, but comments like this overshadow them and make it appear like you take yourself a little too seriously. If a discussion is tiresome for you, do something else that you like better.

Note that I didn't claim people can shoot sub .10 splits with production triggers, just said that in my personal experience the SA on a good DA/SA gun can be just as good as on an SAO gun. So I can't think of any reason a sub .10 split shouldn't be possible. Doesn't mean there isn't a reason, just means that I can't think of one. Sorry if you find that discussion offensive.

[Jake Di Vita]

You are getting very tiresome to talk to.

You make some good points, but comments like this overshadow them and make it appear like you take yourself a little too seriously. If a discussion is tiresome for you, do something else that you like better.

Note that I didn't claim people can shoot sub .10 splits with production triggers, just said that in my personal experience the SA on a good DA/SA gun can be just as good as on an SAO gun. So I can't think of any reason a sub .10 split shouldn't be possible. Doesn't mean there isn't a reason, just means that I can't think of one. Sorry if you find that discussion offensive.

This has nothing to do with me chief. The tiresome aspect is in my experience, even when I'm not involved in the discussion, you reach for any reason you can to disagree with things that you may not necessarily have much personal experience with. I've known a lot of people like you in my life. You're the guy that points out the one single "i" that isn't dotted.

"Maybe production shooters are worrying about hitting the targets and calling their shots instead of learning circus tricks. ;)"

This adds nothing of substance to the discussion, and when used as a response to me asking for someone to point me to a video is very tiresome (causing one to feel bored or annoyed....in this case annoyed).

And by the way just so you know, tiresome =/= offensive.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[Gooldylocks]

Jake, the fastest trigger finger I know belongs to Yong Lee. He came and shot our local match this weekend. There are a couple in this video that I would bet are faster than .10:

https://youtu.be/BK3gtIvg5Yw

But I tend to agree that a really good DA/SA gun trigger is essentially the same as a decent SAO trigger (still gonna have more travel, but whatevs). Which makes it all the more interesting that you don't see AS many people shooting AS fast of splits often. At least to me.

::ETA:: I should amend my statement to say good production trigger, not just da/sa. Cause the grey guns trigger in Yong's gun is incredible

Edited February 29, 2016 by Gooldylocks

[Jake Di Vita]

Jake, the fastest trigger finger I know belongs to Yong Lee. He came and shot our local match this weekend. There are a couple in this video that I would bet are faster than .10:

But I tend to agree that a really good DA/SA gun trigger is essentially the same as a decent SAO trigger (still gonna have more travel, but whatevs). Which makes it all the more interesting that you don't see AS many people shooting AS fast of splits often. At least to me.

Thank you. I've shot with Yong a few times in the distant past, he is a hell of a shooter.

I threw that into Max's app, and it looks like he got some down to the .11 range. Not quite .08 or .09, but definitely makes the premise more reasonable to me.

[motosapiens]

This has nothing to do with me chief. The tiresome aspect is in my experience, even when I'm not involved in the discussion, you reach for any reason you can to disagree with things that you may not necessarily have much personal experience with.

It's called a discussion. It's educational and interesting. There is no reason to get annoyed when people question or discuss what you say.

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

[Jake Di Vita]

This has nothing to do with me chief. The tiresome aspect is in my experience, even when I'm not involved in the discussion, you reach for any reason you can to disagree with things that you may not necessarily have much personal experience with.

It's called a discussion. It's educational and interesting. There is no reason to get annoyed when people question or discuss what you say.

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

Sometimes, yes. But in cases like what is further down in my post that you left out of your quote, it can be not educational or interesting. I'm not annoyed when people question or discuss what I say. You are doing it again. Stop misrepresenting me and re-read the rest of the post you quoted.

I'm sure there is less of a interest in fast splits in matches. We aren't talking about match shooting, we are talking limit of human function.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Jake Di Vita

[Gooldylocks]

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

We don't often agree, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. But what Jake is saying is also true in my opinion, that if you CAN shoot .1 splits then that can give you some interesting options and help you make up time in the match on certain targets.

[Jake Di Vita]

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

We don't often agree, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. But what Jake is saying is also true in my opinion, that if you CAN shoot .1 splits then that can give you some interesting options and help you make up time in the match on certain targets.

It's more a matter of perspective. If shooter A can't shoot faster than .20, .15 is mind-numbingly fast. Shooter B can shoot .10s at will, .15 isn't very challenging at all and is likely more accurate than Shooter A who is shooting .20s at the limit of his ability.

[motosapiens]

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

We don't often agree, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. But what Jake is saying is also true in my opinion, that if you CAN shoot .1 splits then that can give you some interesting options and help you make up time in the match on certain targets.

It probably depends a little on how much effort you have to expend to make that improvement. That same amount of effort might be better expended on some other skill that would pay higher dividends. I seem to recall Ben Stoeger saying in class that .20 splits were plenty fast enough to win nationals. That makes me feel better, since I simply don't move all that fast.

I did however finally nail some sub 2 second bill drills in the last few weeks. I've been working a bit on grip and shot-calling, and somehow I just got better. Go figger.

[motosapiens]

It's more a matter of perspective. If shooter A can't shoot faster than .20, .15 is mind-numbingly fast. Shooter B can shoot .10s at will, .15 isn't very challenging at all and is likely more accurate than Shooter A who is shooting .20s at the limit of his ability.

That's a reasonable point. As I mentioned earlier, it has been my experience that the best shooters (top 3 or so at nationals) generally are not shooting the fastest splits in the match..... but that doesn't really tell us whether they are *capable* of shooting faster splits under some situations, and simply choosing to be a little more certain of their shots at a high-stakes match.

[Gooldylocks]

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

We don't often agree, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. But what Jake is saying is also true in my opinion, that if you CAN shoot .1 splits then that can give you some interesting options and help you make up time in the match on certain targets.

It's more a matter of perspective. If shooter A can't shoot faster than .20, .15 is mind-numbingly fast. Shooter B can shoot .10s at will, .15 isn't very challenging at all and is likely more accurate than Shooter A who is shooting .20s at the limit of his ability.

I must have misunderstood what you were saying, but yes that makes perfect sense to me.

I think due to minor scoring, there may simply be less interest in super-fast split times among top production shooters.

We don't often agree, but I definitely agree with this sentiment. But what Jake is saying is also true in my opinion, that if you CAN shoot .1 splits then that can give you some interesting options and help you make up time in the match on certain targets.

It probably depends a little on how much effort you have to expend to make that improvement. That same amount of effort might be better expended on some other skill that would pay higher dividends. I seem to recall Ben Stoeger saying in class that .20 splits were plenty fast enough to win nationals. That makes me feel better, since I simply don't move all that fast.

I am sure that .2 splits are fast enough to win nationals, but have you ever seen KC or Ben or Rob shoot .20's just because they don't NEED to to win?

I did however finally nail some sub 2 second bill drills in the last few weeks. I've been working a bit on grip and shot-calling, and somehow I just got better. Go figger.

It is amazing what practice can do, I suck big time at accuracy and I spent the past couple weeks really working hard shots and just group shooting at distance. And you know what happened this weekend at the match? I actually hit what I was aiming at. Crazy stuff this practice thing.

[Gooldylocks]

All of this conversation about production shooters ripping .10 splits has gotten away from the real point of this discussion though... what happened to the guy claiming a 1.26 bill drill? I still wanna see that.