jkrispies Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Sorry if I missed something in the above thread, but what is the EXACT purpose of the rifle? It sounds to me like this is going to be an inexpensive paper puncher out to a maximum of 300m? If that's the case, why not just go .223 and see how small you can make the groups. If you're talking about shooting on a budget, you can buy a helluva lot more .223 ammo than .308, plus there's more plentiful brass for reloading, at least in my neck of the woods. Now if there's a secondary purpose of hunting, a realistic chance of shooting at 600+ meters, etc, then that's a different story, but I'm not getting that impression from the OP... Having said that, if you're on a budget I wouldn't put too much thought in going beyond a 20" purely for distance work simply because you'll need $$$ glass if you're planning to shoot out to any real range. It all adds up! Figure out your true purpose and make a spreadsheet that includes optics, mount, and a year's worth of ammo. Modify from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 ^ Now there's a thought. I shoot past 600yds with my 16" 223 all the time. Not because it's the best tool for the job, but it's what I always have nearby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I used to have a bull barreled 20" AR that would ping the 600 yard gong all day long. I sold it to my buddy, and he swears by that upper, calling me an idiot every opportunity he gets for giving it up to him. I always wondered what a .223 bolt action would be able to pull off based on my experience with that semi-auto. Build one with a 20" heavy barrel (threaded for a sweet brake) and a big enough chamber to load the bullets long, plus a 1:8 twist on a properly bedded stock... damn, I might have to start pricing one out for myself, lol!!! It would make a pretty sweet varmint/coyote gun, too. AND CHEAP TO SHOOT!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) Thanks guys, well, like I said, I´m having a 20" BB AR15, which shoots better than me. So I wanted to upgrade, to be able to shoot further out, and yes, only paper punching as long I can buy my meat from the supermarket. Nothing against hunting, my German surname is "Hunter", so my forefathers will have done this for aliving. But over here it is expensive to hunt and I like to shoot, like the BUMM and the technical aspect and the competition and.... Best bang for the buck is HOWA over here. With a MDT LSS system it gets even cheaper than with a better HOWA system. I´m having some AR butt stocks and pistol grips on hands, as I´m having 12x scope (Hawke) and some mounting rings here (just to start off). And I like to have the magazine option, which is possible in 223 or 308 with HOWA and the LSS. Other calibers from HOWA even have only Standard barrels, so. Having a very good 223 (Schmeisser Ultra Match) and wanting to go further out, lead me to the 308. That´s just my way of "my finding" a precision rifle on a budget. But like I said, I can shoot 300m when I´m driving two hours. To shoot further out, I have to leave country (Switzerland or Poland f.e.), where are long range competitions, too. One shooting buddy of me is having a Haenel RS8, another one is searching around for something close to that, we are planning to do long range just for the heck of it in the future. ("Long range" means in this case 800m+) You can only shoot on officially approved ranges over here (what means, that no bullet can leave the range, put simply). Without the military ones, they end at 300m over here. Edited June 3, 2015 by jayjay1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkrispies Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 (edited) If you're certainly going to shoot to 800+ then, yes, .308 is a better choice. .223 can do it with a long enough barrel, but it would suck to drive hours to get to the range only to discover that the weather conditions are such that a .223 can't buck the wind but the guy with a .30cal is doing fine. Sorry, I missed that part earlier. Regarding the barrel length, 20" will do you fine to 800m on store ammo (168gr Federal Gold, for instance), and I'd think 1000m is a possibility if you are reloading. I have a .308 bolt that I built for similar reasons as you, and I built it specifically with a 1:10 twist 22" barrel after running calculations which said that I could keep a 175gr SMK supersonic far enough past 1000 yards to make it worthwhile. Of course that gun pretty much gathers dust now so I never really tested the theory, but that's another story... Having said all that, if you're really serious about going past 800m, I'd choose the 24" just to be safe. It sounds like you're only going to carry it from the trunk of your car to the shooting bench and back to your car again, so having the shorter barrel isn't really gaining you anything in terms of carry weight or having to swing it around trees, etc. Plus, if you start reloading, the published data will likely be based off a 24" inch barrel (or close) rather than a shorty. Edited June 3, 2015 by jkrispies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Haha, trapped! "...carry it from the trunk of your car..." So, well, just to have the option, I will follow you and go with the 24" HB. And if I realize in some years, that I never will go above 800m, and am missing a tad of accuracy, I still can take my jigsaw and shorten it roundabout 10" (more or less). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Good choice on the Howa. Howa makes the same actions that Nosler is getting a fortune for on their rifles. Same as the Weatherby Vanguards also. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) . Edited June 4, 2015 by Adam B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 What I know, HOWA is making the Weatherby´s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BitchinCamaro Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) For the money, the Howa's are hard to beat. I started with a 20" fluted heavy barreled action in .308 and it's been a solid shooter. If you're in Germany, you have something of a Howa specialty geek shop (relatively) nearby. Rodale Precision does custom work and even has a sub-chassis to fit the ACIS style stocks and magazines. US customers have had some issues getting product, but if you're on the same continent, then it's probably worth a phonecall or roadtrip to Osnabruck. http://wp.roedale.de/ Apparently, that is a 1500 short action in there. Edited June 5, 2015 by BitchinCamaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjay1 Posted June 5, 2015 Author Share Posted June 5, 2015 Siryessir, Mr. Roedale does great work and is having a good name over here, but I want a budget rifle. I only want the HOWA system with the barrel. For the price of a HOWA stock, I can get a MDT LSS. AR buttstocks and grips are on hands, also like a (cheap for the beginning) scope and a mount. It´s only a Hawke -12x50, but for 100m and to start off, it will do. That will be a cheap and selfbuild custom gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fedupflyer Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 (edited) If you are looking for out of the box accuracy, I would say look at a Tiika T3. I bought a CTR earlier this year and I am more than pleased with it. This is my first "precision" rifle. Yesterday, I shot a 1-1.5 inch group at 400 yds using Federal Gold Match 7.62 ammo. Yes, approx .25 MOA. Currently working on some loads that are better than factory FGM. Edited November 20, 2015 by fedupflyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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