Brand New STI Trojan 5 40 S&W Failure To Feed

[Orbit]

Hi Friends,

I bought a Brand New STI Trojan 5 40 S&W here in Ontario, Canada (GTA) April of 2015.

I brought it to our local shooting range and tested the pistol. The pistol has 1 magazine with it in blued 8 rounds STI (Metalform) magazine. I also bought a additional 6 pcs of STI-Metalform S/S magazines (8 rounds for Major Classic - IPSC). The pistol is accurate and in the process of breaking in. Now, I fired at least 500 rounds thru it. In the process of the tests, I experienced the failure to feed problem as indicated by the pic below:

This is happening in 3 to 4 new magazines (metalform S/S 8 rounds, fixed bottom plate, with spacer and intended for 40 S&W caliber pistol). I copied the dimension of my good blued magazine and applied to these mags (feed lips and magazine opening dimensions). I went back to shooting range and in the first & second tests (full 8 rounds) to these mags, everything went well. I loaded it up again and fired for the third trial; the problem re-surfaced again. Failure to Feed where the ammo is pointing up and not the normal nose dives that other shooters are experiencing with the same pistols type from STI. This FTF is only happening consistently on every 2 rounds left in the magazine. Now, from 4 mags, it becomes 5 mags of the same issue. I am trying to replicate the problem using the dummy ammo and even the live ones (but i removed the firing pin of the pistol) but I failed.

I called STI c/o Randy and He is very helpful and sent a replacement magazines (still in transit).

Right now, I am playing with my ammunition OAL. During the break in i used the Win Factory ammo 160g FN 1.128". Now, I asked my friend to load me up ammo in 1.2", 1.19 & 1.18" just to rule out one problem at a time.

The only things that I change in the pistol are: Installing the aftec Extractor (which works best) and the installation of SV trigger medium flat silver. Just a note, from the orig and new aftec extractor, the problem is still the same, so I am ruling out the extractor. The ejector is not touching the magazine or ammo. The slide stop is not touching the ammo too.

Friends, do you have any experience with the same problem as indicated in the pic and what did you do to correct it? What is the best magazine for this pistol; reg 40 S&W or 10mm? Tripp or metalform or others?

[Zoomy]

I have had this problem several times and finally case gaged the ammo that jammed up. They all had a case of " Glock bulge"

The case would pivot up on the bulged area in front of the extractor groove. I put them through a Redding push thru die and they fed perfectly.

Not saying for sure that this is the problem you are having. You should also check your feed lip dimensions.

This was my experience and cure. Somebody else may have another suggestion. Good luck.

[Orbit]

Thank you for your input. I am also thought about the ammo but before i go to shooting range, I am checking and case gauge my ammunition for reloads, aside from that I am using the Winchester 165 or 180 grains FMJ FN bullet factory load.

For magazine; yes, i am thinking about the feed lips and magazine opening dimesions as I discussed above in my post.

[dogtired]

I switched to Wilson mags and feeding problems went away.

[SpankYa]

1.128" is very short for a .40S&W in am STI chamber. I believe most shooter experiencing similar FTFeed issues alleviate the problem by loading no shorter than 1.180". I have the same problem trying to shoot my Glock loads (1.140) through my STI.

Lester

[MickB]

Same issue in the large frame Tanfoglio platform as well (at least in the early large chamber guns) and IIRC, the old Para P16-40.

Load to 1.18 and the problem goes away...

Mick

[Orbit]

Today, I will be going to the range and test again the said magazines (metalform 8 rds S/S) Prior to that, my schedule for the day are:

1. tweak the feed lips and opening of the magazine to specs as my original STI Metalform Blued 8 rds mag

2. Polishing the feedramp and a bit on the slide stop

I will update you guys tomorrow evening. Thanks for all your input as of now.

[sfinney]

Tripp used to make a lot of money rewelding the feedramp on these to get them to run.

[lcs]

Flat Nose bullets in 40 are a bit tricky. There is a sweet spot OAL, but I prefer to use a bullet with less of pronounced flat spot. A bullet having more of a rounded nose will feed easier. Brass is important also. I run my brass through the push through die. PITA, but every round feeds and goes bang.

[sfinney]

Just because a round fits in a gauge does not mean it does not have a "bulge". Its the shape that matters too, not just if its under a certain spec. As above, round nose bullets, and new brass - or run used brass through a full length sizer. Load long 1.18 OAL.

If none of that works get new Wilson, Tripp, or ? mags.

If different mags don't fix it...... weld the ramp?

[kimberacp]

If it were me. I would check...

1. slide stop. see if there is any gold rubbing marks on the inside hump, if there is, file down, careful not to remove the bottom ledge that makes contact with the follower.

2. with an empty case and 600 sandpaper/then use 1000 grit, rolled onto the case. rub it up and down on the feed-ramp, then use a polishing paste with a demel buffing wheel and polish. Also with a small round file, break sharp top corner of the ramp, just round it off and polish with buffing wheel.

3. load your ammo around 1.160 - 1.170 give or take and make sure you have proper crimp. Drop finished round to test into chamber, should fall in and fall out, when you have the proper crimp. no more crimp needed, just enough to ensure round falls in and falls out.

4. change recoil spring to a Wolff 13lb spring. that should be right in the ball park, you can later change to suit your style of shooting.

5. make sure you don't have too much tension on the extractor? check to see if the round slides up easily and stays secure in the hook. also bevel the bottom on the extractor, where the round comes up into the hook. use a slight radius at the corner of the hook and polish.

and yes the Tripp Corba/corey mags are the best to use.

thats what I would do.

JMHO

Edited May 20, 2015 by kimberacp

[EkuJustice]

I would first load longer 1.18 and see if that helps. The 40s tend to do best with that combo. For mags, the Tripp "Corey" mags are the way to go

[Orbit]

If it were me. I would check...

1. slide stop. see if there is any gold rubbing marks on the inside hump, if there is, file down, careful not to remove the bottom ledge that makes contact with the follower.

2. with an empty case and 600 sandpaper/then use 1000 grit, rolled onto the case. rub it up and down on the feed-ramp, then use a polishing paste with a demel buffing wheel and polish. Also with a small round file, break sharp top corner of the ramp, just round it off and polish with buffing wheel.

3. load your ammo around 1.160 - 1.170 give or take and make sure you have proper crimp. Drop finished round to test into chamber, should fall in and fall out, when you have the proper crimp. no more crimp needed, just enough to ensure round falls in and falls out.

4. change recoil spring to a Wolff 13lb spring. that should be right in the ball park, you can later change to suit your style of shooting.

5. make sure you don't have too much tension on the extractor? check to see if the round slides up easily and stays secure in the hook. also bevel the bottom on the extractor, where the round comes up into the hook. use a slight radius at the corner of the hook and polish.

and yes the Tripp Corba/corey mags are the best to use.

thats what I would do.

JMHO

Just because a round fits in a gauge does not mean it does not have a "bulge". Its the shape that matters too, not just if its under a certain spec. As above, round nose bullets, and new brass - or run used brass through a full length sizer. Load long 1.18 OAL.

If none of that works get new Wilson, Tripp, or ? mags.

If different mags don't fix it...... weld the ramp?

Hi,

You are right and lots of points to consider in solving my issues. I just came back from the range and the following were the results:

1. I check first all the ammunition dimensions using my Dillon Case Gauge for 40 S&W.

Results:

a. The factory load and my finest 40 S&W reloads (1.128") have some sort of a bit difficulty to seat properly in the gauge. It seems that the

wall of the case wasn't resize/sized properly, it seems that the case is still thick enough to produce resistance to prevent the seating

of the case in the chamber.

b. The reload from a friend of mine in 1.18" have bulge cases

Temporary solution: Used the Factory load ammunition (winchester 165g FN 40S&W in white box)

2. Fired at least 50 rounds ( 20 rounds factory and 30 rounds finest reload)

Results:

a. I have 1 FTF per mag ( 5 rounds each mag) - used 5 mags

b. It seems that the FTF now wasn't the nose up as indicated in the pic but the ammo didn't seat completely to the chamber. The ammo

was 3/4 seated while the other 1/4 still out of the chamber.

2. Dismantle my slide and clean the barrel ramp, chamber and its wall; then put back the pistol together again

Results:

a. For 5 mags running 50 rounds of finest reload (means the ammo were checked which almost identical to the physical dimensions of

the factory ones), only 1 FTF.

3. I tried to run 1.18" and 1.2" OAL to my gun but it wasn't fit to my magazine in terms of its length. So, i removed the spacer. Loaded

the magazine and put it on the gun.

Result:

a. the ammo nose dive - first ammo in the magazine

b. the ammo didn't fit to the gun's chamber (fit thru half way) -- the case are bulge

Note: The case which was written as bulge and didn't fit to my Trojan 40 chamber works flawlessly with STI Edge and STI Ranger 2. I did

made a comparison of their chamber. I found that the edge and ranger chamber are reemed, polished and bit wider than my Trojan

40's chamber

Conclusion: The STI Trojan 40 chamber is still too tight

For now, my plans for tomorrow are:

1. Full cleaning of the pistol

2. check and sanding of slide stop (if it touch the ammo) if needed

3. Polish the ramp, side of the ramp, throat or chamber, upper edges of the chamber

Friends, please write your comments, suggestions and personal experience.

[Orbit]

I am trying to put the pics but I cant see the right icon.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Orbit

[Orbit]

[bountyhunter]

Note: The case which was written as bulge and didn't fit to my Trojan 40 chamber works flawlessly with STI Edge and STI Ranger 2. I did

made a comparison of their chamber. I found that the edge and ranger chamber are reemed, polished and bit wider than my Trojan

40's chamber

Conclusion: The STI Trojan 40 chamber is still too tight

The chamber is almost certainly in spec, have it checked before doing any "reaming". It sounds like the problem is the ammo and I am very familiar with that problem. I bought several cheap aftermarket barrels for some of my guns I could ream to shoot crappy reload ammo because it was cheap and the only stuff available.... but I would never ream a factory barrel to make it shoot out of spec ammo.

[dansedgli]

Do me a favor.

Pull the barrel out and see if the same rounds drop in.

Remove the front spring from the aftec. Make sure it can pivot.

[dogtired]

If you were in the US, I would volunteer to send a Wilson mag to you for a function test. I tried to go with the Metalform Mags to save a few bucks when I first bought my .40 Trojan, but it was a Jam-o-matic, Wilson mags ($160 US) later and it runs like a top.

Of course my Canadian made Para 16.40 runs like a top...

[Orbit]

Note: The case which was written as bulge and didn't fit to my Trojan 40 chamber works flawlessly with STI Edge and STI Ranger 2. I did

made a comparison of their chamber. I found that the edge and ranger chamber are reemed, polished and bit wider than my Trojan

40's chamber

Conclusion: The STI Trojan 40 chamber is still too tight

The chamber is almost certainly in spec, have it checked before doing any "reaming". It sounds like the problem is the ammo and I am very familiar with that problem. I bought several cheap aftermarket barrels for some of my guns I could ream to shoot crappy reload ammo because it was cheap and the only stuff available.... but I would never ream a factory barrel to make it shoot out of spec ammo.

Hi Bountyhunter,

Thanks. Actually I am thinking of that last night and will not touch the chamber for reamer. I will try first several high-end ammo and good empty brass to reload.

[Orbit]

Do me a favor.

Pull the barrel out and see if the same rounds drop in.

Remove the front spring from the aftec. Make sure it can pivot.

Hi Dansedgli,

I did that yesterday. I got the barrel and tried to drop in the ammo of both factory and good reload on it. It seems that the wall of the case is a bit thick that produce a resistance to fully seated the ammo. It needs to be pushed a bit to make it seat properly. The worst one are the pics below.

These are the same with my barrel.

[dansedgli]

sort the ammo out then reassess.

[Orbit]

If you were in the US, I would volunteer to send a Wilson mag to you for a function test. I tried to go with the Metalform Mags to save a few bucks when I first bought my .40 Trojan, but it was a Jam-o-matic, Wilson mags ($160 US) later and it runs like a top.

Of course my Canadian made Para 16.40 runs like a top...

Hi Dogtired,

Thank you for the input and even for the offer of lending the mag if i am in US. I am planning to buy the corey Tripp mags sooner, I am just trying to see and solve the issues one at a time. In terms of wilson mags, what kind or model of magazine in 40 S&W or 10mm?

[Orbit]

sort the ammo out then reassess.

I did that when I was in the range yesterday. I shoot the factory load first and out of 5 trials in alledge defective mags, I only got 1 FTF.

Then I used the sorted reload ammunitions and no FTF. These happens when I gauge all ammo and clean the barrel chamber (put a bit of oil).

[Orbit]

sort the ammo out then reassess.

I did that when I was in the range yesterday. I shoot the factory load first and out of 5 trials in alledge defective mags, I only got 1 FTF.

Then I used the sorted reload ammunitions and no FTF. These happens when I gauge all ammo and clean the barrel chamber (put a bit of oil).

The FTF was the same indicated pic at the very beginning of this post. The ammo nose-up.

[Bob DuBois]

40 S@W is where Lee's U die shines. It will size closer to the extractor groove and tighter than other brands.

I seen several 2011's start running just by switching the first stage sizing die out. Purchase from Midway, EGW

or Lee direct.

Just as an added measure check extractor tension. Load ammo as long as possible. Throat barrel and try a quality

magazine.

Lube cases, machine may run a little slower with the U die. Your machine needs to be in time.

A Lee sizing die or a U die is in every pistol caliber I load on either a 550 or a 650.