benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 All, I was in the process of shooting my first uspsa match today at a local club, first two stages went fine, about 40 rounds in and BAM BOOM SMACK... Felt like a fire cracker went off in my hand, stung like crazy. Background on the gun and load. Gun has around 1500 rounds through it, 99% being reloads. The rounds today were reloads, 165 Montana gold, I'll have to check but I think 5.4 vit N340. I've shot about 300 of the exact same load and well over a thousand other reload combinations. I'm loading on a Dillon 650xl progressive. The powder check die is NOT in use. Or shall we say it wasn't.... I'm not an expert but it looks like the shell was not supported and blew the whole back off. I'll try to add pictures in a bit. It cracked the frame and the extractor looks bent and is very loosely wobbling around in the slide. If you search for 5.25 KB I believe you will find another forum member with almost identical circumstances. His pictures are almost identical as well except my frame held together and just cracked. Any ideas? I'll be in contact with Springfield tomorrow about returning to the factory. Also the only modification to the gun is a drop in trigger kit from PRP. This is my first post, but have read many many posts on this website, I think it's great. Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Sounds like an over pressure situation for sure. Either a double charge, bullet setback, or a squib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 i do not believe it was a squib, the shot prior to this one acted just fine and hit the target. unless the shot prior left a piece of the case in the chamber or something crazy. the gun completely locked up, the frame expanded enough that the slide release came out of its position and was holding up the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I have had the same problem twice. Finally found it was an overpressure issue with Unique and specifically PMC brass. The problem is have is I was NOT loading over the listed data. I still to this day cannot understand how it has happened. Springfield keeps saying it is not the guns fault, but I will be damned if it did not happen again in 9MM. And yes, it was Unique again. My only advice is don't use Unique or any other powder close in performance at anything near max loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I blew up a Tarsus several years ago, in the same manner. Prior shot was a scoring hit = no squib. Rounds were loaded on a progressive press, and the same load I had been shooting for over a year.. Had no feeling in my strong had, for several minutes. Never did determine the cause! The good news . . . Tarsus rebuilt the gun free of charge. It is my guess that the case was cracked at the base. I continued to shoot the same load, in the rebuilt gun, without another issue. Edited March 9, 2015 by Reshoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 that's good to hear you didn't have any other problems after it was rebuilt. And rebuilt for free!!! Wow! I really like the xdm I want to stick with it. And I will as long as I have full confidence in the gun. I'm with you, I think/hope it was a brass issue. I'm shooting range pick up brass. For all I know it had been shot 10 times. I might switch to verified once fired brass. I just got in touch with Springfield, I explained my issue over the phone with customer service, I had a return shipping label in my email inbox before I got off the phone. I'll keep this updated when I find out more information. Thanks for everyone's input. I'm leaning towards a brass problem. But I'll see what Springfield has to say. Benellishooter3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 9, 2015 Author Share Posted March 9, 2015 Or a bullet set back? Who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 that's good to hear you didn't have any other problems after it was rebuilt. And rebuilt for free!!! Wow! I really like the xdm I want to stick with it. And I will as long as I have full confidence in the gun. I'm with you, I think/hope it was a brass issue. I'm shooting range pick up brass. For all I know it had been shot 10 times. I might switch to verified once fired brass. I just got in touch with Springfield, I explained my issue over the phone with customer service, I had a return shipping label in my email inbox before I got off the phone. I'll keep this updated when I find out more information. Thanks for everyone's input. I'm leaning towards a brass problem. But I'll see what Springfield has to say. Benellishooter3 I failed to mention that I sold the Tarsus a few months later, and bought my first Springfield XDm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarvis243 Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 I had the same happen a year ago. I will try post a picture. My frame looked like yours. Case failure for sure only mine was a mix of some factory ammo. Springfield determined it case failure and would not warranty. I think it cost me somewhere around $75. They replaced a couple other things also. I have been probably 100% reloads since and no issues. I go as lite as I can just to avoid that issue even though I know it can still happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benellishooter3 Posted March 11, 2015 Author Share Posted March 11, 2015 seems to be more common than I expected. Humm, I guess you don't hear about it until you go looking for it. I'm currently trying out minor 40 loads, so hopefully it'll be a smaller boom if it ever happens again. Thanks for posting your experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihocky2 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I watched a friend of mine KB his 40 XDM a few years ago. The gun saw a box or two of factory rounds and then all reloads. I know he was running Rainier plated, but not sure of the weight or charge. Frame, slide, and barrel were fine, but bent the extractor. Springfield checked over the gun and replaced the extractor at his cost. The case did not blow out like that one did, it looked like the base was simply ripped off. Not sure if it was out of battery, over charged, or bullet setback. At that time he was using a Dillon 650, but still did not have the best reloading procedure and would get about 1 squib out of every 100-200 rounds, so an over charge is possible. I do know it was a PMC piece of brass the KB'd on him and I have found that to be a common thread across other people. Not saying they are the only one that does it, but it does seem more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I wonder if there is a difference between PMC brass and all others. I know this has occurred with two other XDM's and at least to myself the problem is not the reload, but a combination of other issues. For certain my loads was not over maximum, and I was not using magnum primers. I do know the rounds were lead 180 grain, but I cannot imagine that was the issue. If anything that lowered the pressure, or should have. Perhaps this is a problem of shooting rapidly and the longer frame not quite returning to battery fast enough and the gun is suffering from out of battery issues. Were either of the other shooters who had the same experience shooting 180 lead also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarvis243 Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I have seen it happen with 2 glocks also. The damage on both of those pistols were way worse. Both were .40s. It seems that it happens with these .40s more than any other. Im not sure exactly what i was shooting when it happened but i know it was not lead and it was either 165 or 155. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I bought an xdm 40 for limited in oct/nov. I'm not using it yet, it has about 400 factory rounds through it, but I"m reading everything preparatory to getting it in order. I think I'm going to go with new starline after reading this and make sure to never load any brass that isn't mine. I had just pulled all remington brass out of my 45acp rotation, now I'll avoid PMC too. I'm glad you weren't badly injured. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I load PMC brass in 9MAJOR over and over again. I think it's a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reshoot Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I bought an xdm 40 for limited in oct/nov. I'm not using it yet, it has about 400 factory rounds through it, but I"m reading everything preparatory to getting it in order. I think I'm going to go with new starline after reading this and make sure to never load any brass that isn't mine. I had just pulled all remington brass out of my 45acp rotation, now I'll avoid PMC too. I'm glad you weren't badly injured. Red After my blowed up Tarsus, in an earlier post, the only thing I did different was to inspect my brass a lot closer. Still do to this day, but, I'll shoot any head stamp. That Starline brass will only be new / unfired once. Don't over react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillM Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Had almost the same thing in a CZTS with Winchester white box. Can't remember if I posted it here but the case looked almost exactly like Benellishooter3's above except it didn't lose the base. Never contacted anyone except Angus who built it and he sent me a new extractor and all was good. Local experts analyzed it as firing out of battery because it looked like the case tried to eject with the barrel about 1/16" away from the breech face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So what is the reason they shoot out of battery and how does that get prevented? I was talking about new brass and then only reloading my own, that way I know the history of the brass and if it's been overloaded. I think this makes the third xd KB I've read about, I don't want to worry about it but want to know what I can do to prevent it. i plan to use either w231 or wst for loading it, neither are right by unique on the charts I don't think. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So what is the reason they shoot out of battery and how does that get prevented? I was talking about new brass and then only reloading my own, that way I know the history of the brass and if it's been overloaded. I think this makes the third xd KB I've read about, I don't want to worry about it but want to know what I can do to prevent it. i plan to use either w231 or wst for loading it, neither are right by unique on the charts I don't think. Red Your assuming it actually fired out of battery. I don't believe its possible. Ive looked at how the timing of events happens with my XDM 5.25 and the barrel and slide are locked together well before the striker could release and hit the primer. Assuming of course the pistol in question has its striker block in proper working order. Im more inclined to believe its a case failure. Not uncommon in .40 SW caliber. Attached are a couple of pictures of some .40SW brass from a pistol I owned a few years ago that initially looked like it was firing out of battery. They look very similar to the OP's picture of the case. Fortunately for me it was an all steel framed pistol and suffered no damage (it did blow the base pads off the magazine and dumped the remaining rounds at my feet). The fired cases would fit partly into the chamber but not nearly far enough in to allow the firing pin to hit the primer. All of the bulging at the base happens after the slide starts backwards as it cycles after the shot is fired. These photos also show a winchester case cut in half next to the offending FC case, and clearly shows the very thin web that was the issue then. Never used another FC case and have not had another case failure scince. Of course to much gunpowder or bullet setback would have the same effect as bad cases. Bottom line is you can never be too careful when it comes to reloading. Especially with the prevalence of plastic framed pistols, as they seem more prone to damage when a case goes kaboom. Thankfully the OP was not injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phecksel Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 How do you clean and polish your brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mont1120 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) I want to be clear that I only question whether or not it fired out of battery. I am not saying that was the cause but was just throwing it out there in case there was some other info on the issue. I too use PMC brass extensively, in my .45 and 9MM, so the problem is the exact combination for my situation, Unique, 180 gr lead, and PMC, which will give me a head separation. There is something happening I dont understand, but having it happen twice is good enough for me, I was fortunate enough the third time did not crack the frame, but it was PMC again. One of those mystery's. I cant imagine it is not overpressure of some sort caused by the combo. Edited March 23, 2015 by mont1120 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceinyerface Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 What is your process for inspecting your brass for case head separation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpeltier Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I want to be clear that I only question whether or not it fired out of battery. I am not saying that was the cause but was just throwing it out there in case there was some other info on the issue. I too use PMC brass extensively, in my .45 and 9MM, so the problem is the exact combination for my situation, Unique, 180 gr lead, and PMC, which will give me a head separation. There is something happening I dont understand, but having it happen twice is good enough for me, I was fortunate enough the third time did not crack the frame, but it was PMC again. One of those mystery's. I cant imagine it is not overpressure of some sort caused by the combo. Are you using lead 9mm bullets in your reloads as well?Were your 9mm and .45's both XDM's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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