George Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 In honor of the quest for a sub 3 second pistol El’ Prez that is going on right now, I thought a rifle version would be in order (I’ll leave the shotgun version for someone else to start). I have been working on my AR re-load technique for a while now and have found the El Prezidente drill modified with a port arms start and no turn makes a perfect vehicle for getting better at this. I tried the one shot, reload, one more shot drill and found it lacking because it isn’t the way you shoot in hoser stages where you may wind up doing a flat-footed reload. I have been getting mid to high four runs in dryfire lately, with the re-loads running 1.7 to 1.9 when they go perfect which is about 75% of the time for me at the moment. The other 25% of the time the reload is in the 2.2 to 2.4 range, always because of a hitch in inserting the mag smoothly. Yesterday, I got my first chance in a couple of months to live fire verify my progress. Here are the results from my 3 best runs out of 5 (had two bobbled re-loads that went mid to high 2’s). 5.20 seconds, 48 points = 9.23 HF 5.43 seconds, 54 points = 9.94 HF 5.64 seconds, 55 points = 9.75 HF First shot was pretty much at .89 to .94 on all my runs. The reloads were all in the 1.95 to 2.1 range. Splits were in the .22 to .24 range and transitions were running .28 to .31 Setup: 3 IPSC targets @ 10 yards, 3’ apart, 5’H at shoulder. Start Position: Facing targets, port arms, buttstock touching belt, or belly (whichever comes first) Procedure: two on each, reload, two more on each Primary Goal: Under 4 seconds, all shots on paper Secondary Goal: Under 4 seconds, 60 points (all A’s) Notes: Scoring = Virginia Count, .223 = minor Let’s see what y’all got going here. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 I'll try it as soon as I can. Gunruner had us do an El Prez-like rifle stage last summer, but we did it at 100 yards instead of ten. We also did the turn. You had your loaded rifle on a table behind you while facing uprange, turned, snatched the rifle, then did the rest. We did the same thing with shotgun slugs at 50 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Nice thread, George! Thanks for starting it. I only wish I had read it before I went shooting today. I'll give it a burn sometime very soon. The days are getting longer! I'm actually getting in some trigger time after work these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 Rhino, we have been doing this one and a shotgun slug-a-dente as a regular stage at all of our long gun only matches for a little while now. We sometimes push the distance out to 20 yards and other times it is 10, or 15 yards. We don’t do any turnin’ with long guns though for fear of scaring the horses! Sam, it’s a fun one, but be warned that you can burn up ammo and heat a barrel pretty durn qwik because you just can’t stop running it, it’s so much fun to do live fire ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 At the 04 Area 6 3G Championship, we had a "magnum El Prez" - - 4 targets at 50 yards. Two on each, reload, two on each. Taran Butler won it at 9.04 sec, 69 points. BTW George - the reload is from the belt, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 I’m doing it from the belt, I guess folks are going to want to do it any way they normally carry their spare (redi-mag, cinch, thigh rig). It will be interesting to see if any specific method proves out faster. That Magnum El Prez at 50 sounds interesting, I am gonna give that a try next time out. Another one that we ran at our club in recent memory is what I call the Prezambique, 3 targets, 10 yards, port arms start, 3 on each (2 in the body, one in the head), reload, repeat. We had a fast time in the high 8’s on that one if I remember correctly and the winner was a belt loader with iron sights (our own ErikW in fact). -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 BTW - on the A6 stage, the targets were at a staggered heights. That adds a few fractions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 When I went through Gunsite 223, we did a 25 yard/meter El Prez. As I recall, the par time given was something like (hang on) 14 seconds. But we're talking for stock, rack-grade guns, no optics, no comps (at least nothing that wouldn't pass for a standard A2 flash hider) loading from the belt. (And a class full of LEO and military personnel.) I think my first run was in the seven-second range. I didn't do it many times, why burn out a barrel? And others needed the practice more than I did. At ten yards, with a tuned gun Limited, Tactical or Open, I can see sub-fours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 At ten yards, with a tuned gun Limited, Tactical or Open, I can see sub-fours. I agree with you about that Patrick. I am not a big dawg and I expect to have this under 5 real soon, and down near four at some point not long after that if I put some serious work into it. I took my re-load from 3.5-4 seconds down to 2 flat in less than three months of not very intense practice. I expect working real hard on it will pay even bigger dividends. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I took my re-load from 3.5-4 seconds down to 2 flat in less than three months of not very intense practice. I expect working real hard on it will pay even bigger dividends. George, The Arredondo mag well makes it MUCH easier to load from the belt. Very few people use them - which is fine with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 "magnum El Prez" (Limited) 12.14 sec Lucked out on the reload in a bushmaster lower with no magwell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 14, 2005 Author Share Posted February 14, 2005 The Arredondo mag well makes it MUCH easier to load from the belt Yeah, but it is just so damned ugly. If I had a dog that looked like the Arredondo funnel, I would shave it’s butt and make it walk backwards I did the Dremel route and hogged my lowers magwell out to within an inch of it’s life. Works lots better than a stock lower with all the casting metal still in place in the magwell entrance and it still looks good too! -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronco Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 George, thanks for the drill it has shown me that I need to practice this type of stage. My first one went 8.4 with a 4.2 reload with all hits at least a C. Got it down to 6:15 with a 2.4 reload .16 splits and .3 transitions 8 A's and 4 C's first shot from a .99 to a low of .83. Still needs work, hope to be in the low 5's after a few more practice sessions. Also this is from a Redi mag, plan to try it from the belt to compare times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Okay George finally had some brass generation to do today after long rang practice so I gave it a try a couple of times. Both times the mag change was 1.77, third time it was 1.52 but I ran out of bullets so the run didn't count. First run was 4.66 second run 4.27 all As on both runs. ( NOTHING BEATS IRON UP CLOSE< HOLOSITES BEWARE ) Last run was sub 4 but with only 10 rounds fired....now to refill the generated brass with good components KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Whatever kurts time is , I usually am about 1/2 sec. faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 benny, you forgot to say that you're also better looking..........HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 23, 2005 Author Share Posted February 23, 2005 Both times the mag change was 1.77, third time it was 1.52 but I ran out of bullets so the run didn't count. First run was 4.66 second run 4.27 all As on both runs 60 points/4.66=12.88 HF 60 points/4.27=14.05 HF Good stuff Kurt. That’s what I'm lookin for. Yeah, irons probably are the ticket here. Let’s get some more times and scores going folks.... I know I am going to practice a lot more now. Gotta get under 5, Gotta get under 5, Clean too! ;-) -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Okay George finally had some brass generation to do today after long rang practice so I gave it a try a couple of times. Both times the mag change was 1.77, third time it was 1.52 but I ran out of bullets so the run didn't count. First run was 4.66 second run 4.27 all As on both runs. ( NOTHING BEATS IRON UP CLOSE< HOLOSITES BEWARE ) Last run was sub 4 but with only 10 rounds fired....now to refill the generated brass with good components KURTM Kurt, What was your reloading method? Form the belt, Redimag, etc? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Whoops.....form the belt, mag with bullets down and forward, just like a pistol reload. From a Wilderness holder. I am always a bit slower out of the 3gungear holder as it is a bit to tall for me to really get a good grab on the mag. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Trapper, call me at the shop if you & big dog need a ride ti smm3g, I've got a huge van & only 2 of us rideing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 That's funny, my score is 1/4 second faster than Bennie's. I'll do this drill next week and report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 That's it kelly, I'm comming out to mesa & kicking your butt in your own back yard. Better wear your iron underwear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gl Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Kelly and Bennie, My time is at least 2-3 seconds behind yours, but I look cooler doing it! LOL! Good luck you guys at the SSM3Gun. I can't go because I burned myself. (No Kelly it was not under the same conditions as Richard Pryor) Good luck Guys!! Guy P.S. Bennie we need to talk on your 'field' stock you sold me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted March 3, 2005 Share Posted March 3, 2005 I ran this drill about 8-10 times today. The first two runs I bobbled the reload and had very forgettable times! Unlike the handgun, I reload the rifle better if I don't cant the mag well toward the mag - just keep it straight up and down and leave it on my shoulder. I didn't write down the specific times/points, but my better times were between 4.7-5.1. I had one run with all A's at 5.00, the other runs each had one or two C's. The reloads generally ranged from 1.6-1.9 (not including the first two runs). My reloads were from the belt from a kydex mag holder. The rifle is a 17" Bushmaster with an Aimpoint ML2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmut Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 OK.....you guys doing this like some stages are set up......a rifle used at pistol distance? or the orginial rifle Prez distance of 50yrds..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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