newbie getting started with 45 ACP

[viper8315]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to reloading, and getting started with 45 ACP, and running into some issues with lower than expected velocities, and signs that the case is not sealing in the chamber upon firing (carbon streaks down the cases). I also might be observing some setback as well (based on the speed data). I'll apologize in advance for the novel I'm about to write, but I figure the more info I give the better.

Ok, so here's what I'm working with:

230 RN berry's

CFE Pistol

CCI# 300 large primers

Mixed brass (federal, winchester, fiocchi, aquila, pmc, magtech)

Dillon 650

Kimber 5" 1911

I started off loading to a 1.25" OAL with a 0.472" crimp with 20 rounds each of powder values ranging from 5.4 gr to 6.0 gr, following the example of Hodgon's data. My results were as follows:

5.4gr

534 (only 1 shot recorded, battery died in chrono) all 20 rounds did cycle, but this was definitely very soft

5.6gr

avg 648

sd 26

es 109

5.8gr

avg 685

sd 24

es 106

6.0gr

avg 716

sd 19

es 82

At that range outing, I noticed across the board, streaks down the cases indicating things aren't sealing properly. From poking around these forums, found that a crimp of 0.470" seemed to be the more "standard" number. So I immediately figured it was not enough crimp. I decided to pull apart the 5 dummy loads I made at the start, and the crimp looked ok from my reading. There was a slight indentation. I decided to adjust the crimp to 0.470" and made more dummies. I immediately disassembled them, and they took much more force than the 0.472" crimp to knock out, so I figured that was the issue. Once again, the crimp looked good on the bullet, honestly couldn't tell much difference between the two. I loaded up 20 more rounds each of 5.4 gr-6.2 gr with the 0.470" crimp and headed back to the range. Results were as follows:

5.4gr

avg 651

sd 24

es 80

5.6gr

avg 688

sd 20

es 81

5.8gr

avg 702

sd 24

es 91

6.0gr

avg 734

sd 26

es 88

6.2 gr

avg 749

sd 22

es 73

During this outing, I started to notice a pattern where my second shot was considerably faster (50 fps) or so than my first. So, on my last string with the 6.2 gr, I only loaded 1 round into each of my 5 mags and had a 722 avg, sd of 10, and an es of 29 after those 5 shots. I also still noticed on almost all of the spent cases, carbon streaks. So, at this point, short of crimping more, say 0.468", I figured I'd post up and get some other people's thoughts before continuing. So thanks in advance to anyone for your help. I've attached my excel spreadsheet with my full data. Take note that the thick black borders in the speed columns represent mag changes. I generally did load 1, load 3, load 8, load 8.

Ok...looks like I can't attach an excel spreadsheet, well I can email it to whoever's interested.

Tim

[tires2burn]

Hodgdon calls for 1.200 OAL. That would boost your pressure a bit if your gun cycles ok.

[viper8315]

Hodgdon calls for 1.200 OAL. That would boost your pressure a bit if your gun cycles ok.

Yup, saw that, definitely another variable to play with. Berry's called out an OAL of 1.25 so that's where I started...

[ttolliver]

I don't think crimp is your issue, but since you mention being a newbie and trying different crimps here are a couple thoughts on the crimp.

Unless you're loading a roll crimp cartridge, most reloaders view the crimp as really just straightening the brass back out. Occasionally you'll see people refer to crimping a bit heavier like they want some bite there, but I've fallen in with the straighten out crowd and never had any issues.

So what I do is shoot for a crimp that's .001 less than the diameter of the case just below the crimp.

Good luck!

[Steve RA]

I'd just continue to creep up on the powder charge and see if that does away with the carbon streaks. CFE is on the slower end of the spectrum for .45 ACP so it may require more than you are using presently.

I'm also in the "only straighten out the belling" camp on the matter of crimp.

[zzt]

If you have another, faster powder, use it. I've found that to get SDs in the single digits I have to use a fast or fairly fast powder and load to Major. With slow powders like N340 you have to way faster to get consistent results. With 200gr lead bullets, 4.0gr N310 gets single digit SDs in the 7 range and 4.9gr Solo 1000 in the 6 range.

I don't have a lot of experience with plated. I've been experimenting with Xtreme heavy plate bullets and found, at least preliminarily, I have to drive them faster than the equivalent lead to get accuracy and consistency.

[viper8315]

Thank you for the comments. I took screen captures of my data. You can see that a good majority of my second shots were significantly faster than the first. I'm still kicking myself for forgetting calipers to check loaded rounds after a recoil event. So I can't say with 100% certainty that setback was occurring, but in my very limited experience, a 50 fps difference with this recipe of components is 0.4 gr of powder. I'm very meticulous, and I had the powder measure dialed in and throwing consistently what I wanted it to. Well...let me know what you guys think of the data...

Tim

[Steve RA]

I'd go on up on powder charge until you get about the same velocity as a factory 230 round. The ES and SD should get better as the velocity goes up.

[SeattleDude]

load with 6.4 and 6.6 with 1.245 and chrono. You will like these.

[viper8315]

Hello again everyone. Thanks to all of you for your assistance. I just wanted to report back with my findings after the recent batch. So I added more crimp to combat the possible setback problem. It's now 0.468", and I made 10 each of 5.8-6.6 gr with it. I started off the session by marking and recording the OAL of 10 rounds of the 5.8. I did not observe any measurable setback, and the speeds were stable in regards to follow on shots. Not like last time with 50 fps differences in follow-on shots.

Results:

5.8 gr

avg 665

sd 27

es 80

6.0 gr, unfortunately, bad data due to clouds, turned on the infrared LEDs on the chrono for the rest of the runs.

6.2gr

avg 728

sd 24

es 67

6.4gr

avg 742

sd 12

es 42

6.6gr

avg 770

sd 12

es 46

For comparison sake, I shot some winchester white box, it averaged 834, and PMC 230 RN FMJ which averaged 782. I was outdoors at about 36 deg ambient temp. I did notice that once I got to the 6.4, the carbon streaking began to fade, so it looks like the case is actually beginning to seal in the chamber. I'm still not up to a full power load per say, but things have definitely turned the corner. I might also have to wait for things to warm up since I have no idea on the temperature sensitivity of CFE. I've searched, but couldn't find anybody comment about it. Well, just wanted to report back for anyone else's sake. If anyone wants to see the actual data, let me know, I'd be happy to share. Thanks again...

Tim

[jcc7x7]

Try a faster powder if you can find some

I'm a 469 -470 crimp guy (.002 -.003 smaller than case. Measure where the bullet is, just below that with the flats of your mics / calipers and then use the points of your calipers on the very edge of the case where the crimp should be)

the above system has worked for me in a lot of different 45's for over 38 years

[novalty]

I had good luck with 6.0grs. of Unique with the 230gr. Berry's Plated RN with my 1911. Just impossible to find Unique if you don't already have some.