Alan Meek Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Precision40, Depends on the Powder, True Blue is dense enough that it does not compress. True Blue Leaves ~.250 from the top of the powder to the case mouth. N350 on the other hand is a compressed load. N350 leaves ~.10 from the top of the powder to the case mouth. All loads that I have listed on the 9 Major Load Data post showed about the same pressure signs per the common accepted observation of pressure signs. I did not list any loads that showed any excessive pressure signs, e.g. flat or pierced primers, missing primers or signs alon those lines. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openglock34 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 the powder that i have now is hs-6 i am using brand new cases and just happen to have 115 grain bullets because of the deal i recieved on them, however will be using 125 for matches. all the data i have is from someone that shoots a similiar open glock with the exception it is a 17 and not a 34. the OAL that i was given and that my press is set to is 1.16. the person who has been showing me a little of the ropes of reloading used 8 grains of powder give or take .2 or so grains but i am starting at 7.5 grains. call me crazy but because of the longer barrel of the glock 34 should i be able to use less powder with more velocity because the bullet will have more time to gain velocity? if i am totally talking useless here because as of now you all are my best reference. p.s. i have a reloading manual and it is the lyman manual as well as i have a vhita vouri manual and a few old magazines that carry some data, i know its not much but im not totally empty handed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 8.0 X .10 = 0.8 rounded up = 1.0 8.0 - 1.0 = 7.0 which is where should start loading... AFTER, you check the manufacturer's data for HS-6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 AFTER, you check the manufacturer's data for HS-6. Ummm....Eric....he's talking Major 9 here. FWIW, Hodgdon lists 7.0 grains of HS6 as a max load for 9x19 with 115 grain bullets. They seated the bullets deeper, and were conservative as far as the pressure goes, but we need to remember that everyone loading 9x19 to major velocity is over SAAMI and CIP max pressures. The only way I've read that folks are judging pressures is by primer appearance - not too reliable. I'd love to see what you get from a pressure barrel with these loads. And if I'm wrong, I'll buy you a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Sierra list a load in 9x21 that will make major with a 125g bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 In a Glock, HS6 under a 124 is gonna‘ want somewhere over 8 grains to make major depending on OAL and actual bbl diameter (the final pressure arbiter). OAL is usually 1.145“ to 1.160“ to make the fit in Glock mags depending on bullet ogive. I started at 7.5 grains when I worked up my major 9x21 load data. I am running 8.6 grains of WW540 (same as HS6) under a 124 at 1.135” OAL at present. I get 1380ish fps out of a 6” Barsto bbl. Your mileage “will” vary and you should definitely start a good amount under 8 grains as you work it up to what your gun wants. Ericw is cautiously correct at 7 grains starting. Another good pressure arbiter is case head expansion. Use new brass and size it, then measure it’s diameter at the head, then fire and re-measure. Don’t wanna see much there, maybe a coupla thousandths max. Couple that with primer watching and a chrono and your journey into the land of high pressure handloading should be fine. HS6 will pretty much be what you want to use in this case under anything 124-135 grains in weight. Forget 115’s, that’s for experienced high pressure loaders, seriously, it’s a touchy thing loaded longer, but in a niner, it’s asking for trouble. With the short OAL of 9x19 major in a Glock the pressure generated under a 124 will work the comp and ports just fine, no need to reach for more. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 It took a couple times of scaring the crap out of myself before I started to take the ultra-conservative approach. I always load several baggies of incrementally higher charges when I test a load for the first time. That way I can always stop if things get....um.....too interesting. Yes, this is time consuming and some may argue inefficient. It's also safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 Use new brass and size it, then measure it’s diameter at the head, the fire and re-measure. Don’t wanna see much there, maybe a coupla thousandths max. Good idea, thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openglock34 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 i know there is a difference between 9x19 and 9x21.. but what is it beside i guess the extra 2mil case length i think i heard. and where does it factor into what im trying to do. the gun i have is as mentioned the glock 34 which from my understanding is 9x19, so is that what i am loading and do i want to stick with the 1.135 oal that was mentioned earlier and the safe 7 grain starting point (as soon as i get rid of these 115grains i will order a bunch of 125' and stick with them) so if anyone can somehow decipher what im trying to say (and i'm not doing a great job at it) so i guess the moral of the story is can someone tell me about 9x19 and 9x21 i know im a pain but the more i learn now the better off i will be for it and then i can school young glocksters like myself in the future when they ask the same things. i guess somewhere along the line i got lost -shawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 9X21 was an obsure European cartridge, brought in to circumvent the 9X19 ban we got in USPSA many years ago. The extra 2mm lent nothing to the loading capabilities, except maybe giving more case for longer loading in 1911's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 From what I understand (but, don't trust my research)...9x19 and 9x21 are basically identical...except for those 2mm of extra case length. Try a search on here for 9x21...there are threads on it. And, my Sierra reloading manual covers it pretty well also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 9x19 and 9x21 can use exactly the same data with the caveat that 9x21 may show ever so slightly more pressure (and velocity therefore) because of the extra 2 mm of case mouth grip on the bullet increasing the release tension there. In other words, 9x21 data is directly translatable to 9x19 and possibly a rats ass safer in 9x19. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 BTW, the 1.135” OAL is what the bullet ogive “I“ use requires in “MY” magazines to feed properly. Most folks running 9x19 major in Glocks are running 1.150 to 1.155” and maybe as long as 1.165” in some cases. This is all dependent on what “Your” bullet needs it’s OAL to be set for to feed in “Your” magazines. In other words. 1.150” or longer OAL is a safe starting point, but remember your mileage may differ. I doubt that 1.170” OAL will function in most Glock mags unless the bullet profile in conducive to this. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openglock34 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Share Posted February 11, 2005 this is all great stuff, so pretty much i will just stick with 9x19 data and pretty much erase 9x21 from my vocabulary because it serves no purpose besides confusing me. looks like i opened quite a can of worms with this topic we have quite a few replies with ALOT of good info, thank you everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctgun Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Guys, A lot of great info. I too am starting to load for major 9 in a Glock 17 with a KKM barrel. I have been reloading for about 10 years an agree with everything said about working loads up with known ingredents.What I was wondering though is I am looking to get some N350 & True Blue to use in developing a load. Does anyone know who carries these powders. I live in Attleboro, MA but don't care about driving I just don't want to pay the $20 hazmat fee for each pound of powder because I can't even find a place on the web that sells both powders. Any help is much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Powder Valley......Carries both powders. Along with HS-6. Their prices are 3-5 bucks cheaper per pound than I can find locally. Primers and powder can travel under a single hazmat fee. I can save money over local places if I put in a decent size order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I talked to the Starline people and they confirmed in a fax back to me that the 9x19 case and 9x21 cases are exactly the same except for length. If loaded to the same overall length, the volume below the bullets will be the same and pressures will be the same. The only difference would be how much brass is holding the bullet, but then you are getting down to really tiny details, crimp info, etc. Plus, there is factory ammo law enforcement only (faster than corbon) that makes major in a 5-1/2" open barrel. That said, most open race guns are loaded beyond SAAMI specs, so its a little disingenuous to demand a major-9 stay within guidelines tossed aside by other race calibers. Start conservatively, work up carefully, study brass/primers as best you can as you go along.... and if you screw up don't blame anyone other than yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctgun Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 40AET Thanks for the info. I just placed an order. I can't wait to get the powder in and start to develop a load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 look into 8.0 grains of HS6 and 135 grain bullet, thats what TGO used in a 9X21 back in the day at 175 pf. ?!?!? I don't know that TGO's load should be used either. He isn't shooting in a Glock (thus, he might be loading longer). And, 175pf is hooter than needed here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That load was from the P9 days..loaded short. his website says that he loads N350, but thats for 1911 and isnt really applicable here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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