gr8horses2003 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Hi! Folks, I need some help figuring out a powder measure problem. I am gradually working into using the "progressive". I have been loading powder using a RCBS Chargemaster Combo and cross checking the charges on a iWeigh digital that I got from Brian. Yesterday I wanted to load 250 rounds of .308 using IMR 4064 and Nosler 175 CC's, so decided to try using the powder measure. I have the micrometer installed on the powder bar. So, I re-read the instructions for the press and the bar, adjusted everything, poured the powder into the hopper and away I went. I wound up throwing one hundred charges and none were consistent and probably half were grains off. That's problem number one. The second problem was that when I pushed the lever down and raised the shell plate, it would encounter an obstruction with the shell casing about 1/2 way into the die stopping the process. It seemed to be a "hard" obstruction...gentle pressure on the handle wouldn't relieve it. So I would lower the shell plate and have to try again; sometimes it went in and sometimes not. It never did spill any powder. And, as I was trying to calibrate the powder bar, I used the same casing. The mouth was deburred and chamfered, and it was round. I seat bullets using a Forster Micrometer seater in the next station and thought it might be the seater, so I stuck a case in that station, but it didn't help. I don't understand what the problem is. I must be missing something. Can someone help? Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 As for the powder drops....once you raise the ram, count to 5 before lowering it back down....you are dumping a large amount of powder and it takes time (and it also might be the powder you are using). The second problem might mean that the powder funnel needs polishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Do you have the proper shell plate installed? Sounds like you have an alignment problem. Secondly is the powder bar moving a full stroke? Are you using the correct powder bar...large or small....for the volume you plan to dispense. Is the shell plate (if the proper one) adjusted to move freely between stations but have very little to no up and down motion? Is the fail safe rod properly tensioned? It should be adjusted so that about half the lower spring is compressed. If you can shake the fail safe rod up and down then tighten the blue nut until you have no slack in the rod. Do you have the proper powder funnel installed? Or alternately, the proper resizing/decapping die? The seating die (with no case in that position) should not be involved in this at all so check to see if the problem occurs with the seating position (or any other position) open or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Loosen the screws on the powder measure and make sure that the collar is set properly on the powder die. Run a case without cases in the other stations Recheck the powder funnel. It is just a powder activator and not a flaring die for rifle. The wrong funnel will cause those problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8horses2003 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 I do have the proper shell plate installed and it moves freely without up or down play. I agree...it sounds like an alignment problem, but I just can't seem to find the mis-alignment. That's why I put the other case in the shell plate...to see if it was the seating die or the plate causing a mis-alignment, but the case goes right into the seating die and the lower 1/2 of the powder die with no problems. The powder bar is moving full stroke...I actually had to loosen the bolt after I checked that before starting so that it would. I am using the large powder bar with the micrometer installed. The tension on the fail-safe rod is correct... spring compressed about 12 way. I had to tighten it when I checked it before starting. I will have to check the powder funnel, but I think it is the right one because, when things are right, the casing travels into the die and powder is dispensed without spilling. I will check that. I don't have a decapping/ sizing die installed. I get prepped brass...I know, I know. I did polish the powder funnel. I only have one baffle in powder tube...will a second help? Thanks for your replies. I appreciate your time. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dillon Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The stoppage is occurring when the powder bar has to shear through a granule of the extruded powder. Just push harder on the handle. Be sure you start with the hopper at least 2/3 -3/4 full of powder, cycle the measure 10 times to settle the powder before you begin weighing. Expect a variation of up to +/- .3 grain with that powder. This is well within tolerances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8horses2003 Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 Thanks! Dillon. I just got back from fiddling with it. So, the shell plate was loose by just a little bit, but I tightened it up so there is no play at all and it snaps into position at the station. I also loosened the collar screws let the measure "free float" while I cycled it, then tightened the collar back down, that seemed to have made the fail-safe rod completely vertical. I also tightened the blue nut again for good measure. I also noticed that the spring was off the pin on the fail-safe. When I re-installed it the powder bar didn't return to the closed position as fast or as completely, so I took it back off the pin. I cycled it about one hundred times just to see if it would repeat yesterday's performance, but it didn't. Hopefully, your suggestions have helped me fix this. Later this afternoon, I'll try it with powder and see if I can't get it to work. Thanks for y'all's help. I'll let you know later. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8horses2003 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Update on progress. I cycled a little over 100 charges through the powder measure today. Although, it didn't seem to do it yesterday after I fooled with it, it "caught" a few times today. The charges would periodically settle down but were never consistently on. There was always a at least a 0.2gn variance. I checked the powder funnel and it is labeled "B" and seems to fit over the neck of the .308 case correctly. So, I'll keep fiddling with it and see if I can get it straightened out. Maybe it's this IMR 4064 powder...but that's what I load for .308. I use 8208 XBR for .223. Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 At .2 grains variance, you're only looking at .5% difference in your loads. That's 1/2 of a percent! The .2 grain difference in a pistol load would be considerably more of a variation, something in the vicinity of 4-5% difference, so I wouldn't worry about that small a difference in a rifle load. Unless, of course, you're loading for Benchrest shooting! For "normal" competitions, (3-gun etc.) and hunting, you won't be able to tell that much of a difference in accuracy up to 100+ yards. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Considering the statement of a +/- .3 gn variance, I would think that the .2 falls within that expectation. Also, with the amount of powder in a .308 case, isn't that .2gn less than a 1% variation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I was basing my numbers on an average load of 40 grains of IMR 4064. Sierra lists loads form 39.9-45.0 grains with that powder, so I took the low end of that. It gets to a smaller percentage with the 45.0 gr loads. Really nothing to worry over IMHO. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeinctown Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I was basing my numbers on an average load of 40 grains of IMR 4064. Sierra lists loads form 39.9-45.0 grains with that powder, so I took the low end of that. It gets to a smaller percentage with the 45.0 gr loads. Really nothing to worry over IMHO. Alan~^~ Completely agree. The same .5% variation in the loads of my .45 ACP rounds would be something like .03 grains. Not even a tenth of a grain difference between charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8horses2003 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Guys, thanks for your replies. The LEAST variation was 0.2 gn, but up to several grains...two or three over max load. The degree of variation and randomness seem to mean the process is still out of control. I 'm still fooling with it. I'm going to try loading some .223 and see what happens with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DivemasterMark Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 I took several samples from one run of 45ACP, using Bullseye powder: For the non-precision shooting I do, I am more or less ok with this wide variance, but it does make me wonder why I bought a scale accurate to a thousandth 4.54 4.66 4.52 4.54 4.62 4.6 4.56 4.56 4.54 Max 4.66 Min 4.52 Max Difference 0.14 Mean 4.5711 Percent of mean 3.06% StDev 0.0459 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan550 Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 When loading for rifles, be sure to wait long enough for the powder to drop. You can't load a the same speed as straight-wall pistol cases. Stop with the case in the powder die and count 2 or 3 seconds before putting the handle back up. Alan~^~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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