Please help me select the right progressive press for my needs

[rtp]

About a year ago I started reloading. Similar volume requirements of 1500-2000 rounds per month.

I shied away from the xl650 as most recommended the 550b for noobs (and it is a great press).

That said, I quickly out grew the 550b and was soon looking to upgrade. I found that spending 3-5 hours in front of the press was not something I was very interested in. I had done about 500 rounds per hour on the 550b, but later slowed it down to about 400 rounds per hour. This meant on an average month I was spending at least 5 hours running my press, I'd often try and get a months worth of reloading done in a night or two.... which wasn't all that bad, but I still felt I was spending to much time making 9mm.

If you are somewhat mechanically inclined and cost isn't an issue I'd say start with the xl650, as you can always add the case feeder at a later date..... and you will add the case feeder as it will increase your output substantially. When it came time to insert a progressive press into my workflow I opted for the s1050, and have been extremely happy with it (although complete caliber conversions will put a butt kicking on your wallet).

I know a lot of people that have SD and speak very highly of them (even tho they can't do rifle rounds, and use proprietary dies), but the proprietary dies and lack of rifle support kept it from being a viable option. Although I had no plans of reloading rifle, I preferred to have the option.

Personally I have no experience with the RCBS/Hornady presses you mentioned.... most of my reloading has been done on blue machines.

~g

Similar thought patterns here, just narrowed it down to the 650 or LnL AP. Would love to have a pair of 1050s, one each for 9mm and .223 (and then a third for .308, followed by much 'discussion' with wife, I'm sure ), but it's all a time and convenience vs $ issue, more or less.

When I'm not working up loads for a new powder or bullet, I want to sit down for an hour or two per month and knock out my match and range ammo for the month, ideally plus some to spare. Some months I may not care if that time is doubled and becomes ~5 hours, but others I simply want to get to the business of loading ammo, so the Auto-indexing, case feeder available, 5 station 650 and LnL AP became the only options for me (besides the $$$ 1050, couldn't justify it, but now...maybe, sometime. )

Someone else's 'what's your time worth vs $?' answer may be entirely different based on # of rounds/month and their own lifestyle, but I'm totally with you on 'faster but safer' is ideal, and worth some $ to me.

[rtp]

As far as the LnL, I got a buddy who always talks highly of his, until he saw me load ammo on my 650, and said my press can't do that

What was he referring to, primer ski jumps?

Seriously, was it something specific?

I've briefly run a 550, and wouldn't trade my LnL AP for one + cash. No doubt the 550 can produce good ammo, but I wouldn't do that trade.

I'd be thrilled to find someone local with a 650 to compare notes or even swap presses for a week or two.

I didn't ask, he mentioned having to fiddle with stuff to make it run

That's a pretty misleading 'justification.' Lots of people have no issues once initial proper setup is done, while Dillons aren't exactly 'perfect out of the box,' as the entire Dillon sub-forum shows.

No way of guessing how his press was or wasn't set up, nor his mechanical ability. It could be something as simple as timing slightly off (< 5 mins to adjust once, then not touch again for 10s of thousands of rounds), or his primer pickup being misaligned(<2-3 minutes to set once and forget).

[rtp]

Not a press but maybe for you.

http://www.thec4m3ron.com

This doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in their product

Indeed, but they couldn't spell Cameron correctly either so I didn't have high hopes...

I've seen that sight before, and yeah, just LOL. Is the owner a teenage hacker?

[zhangla]

This community is just wonderful. I got a great deal of help here.

BTW - I am the OP and I have placed an order of SDB just today. My needs are pretty unique though. YMMV.

1. I have a separate RCBS single stage press + dies for rifle loads

2. I have very limited space (the height of 650 is about 36-40 inches when mounted on table, and taller if mounted on strong mount) and the slimness of SDB is very attractive to me

3. I am pretty used to load 9mm with RCBS single stage press, 50-80 rounds/hour was the norm for me when consuming 1500/month. I'd be pretty happy with anything that can double that speed, i.e. I don't mind sitting at the reload bench for 4-5 hours a month

I thank everyone who have helped me in contributing valuable information.

[johnsons1480]

I've seen that sight before, and yeah, just LOL. Is the owner a teenage hacker?

I don't know man. What's funny is that i found the Dillon logo in another area of the site, so they at least knew where to find it. It looks like they dumped a ton of money into marketing, and maybe paid a really good programmer who knows nothing about reloading at all. It looks VERY over priced for what it is, which is probably due to what looks like a significant up front website cost.

That name is dumb. I read their story, I understand it's his son's name. Like you said though, is the dude a hacker? Why name it in such a silly way?

[rtp]

This community is just wonderful. I got a great deal of help here.

BTW - I am the OP and I have placed an order of SDB just today. My needs are pretty unique though. YMMV.

1. I have a separate RCBS single stage press + dies for rifle loads

2. I have very limited space (the height of 650 is about 36-40 inches when mounted on table, and taller if mounted on strong mount) and the slimness of SDB is very attractive to me

3. I am pretty used to load 9mm with RCBS single stage press, 50-80 rounds/hour was the norm for me when consuming 1500/month. I'd be pretty happy with anything that can double that speed, i.e. I don't mind sitting at the reload bench for 4-5 hours a month

I thank everyone who have helped me in contributing valuable information.

Let us know how it works out for you, with pics!

[rtp]

I've seen that sight before, and yeah, just LOL. Is the owner a teenage hacker?

I don't know man. What's funny is that i found the Dillon logo in another area of the site, so they at least knew where to find it. It looks like they dumped a ton of money into marketing, and maybe paid a really good programmer who knows nothing about reloading at all. It looks VERY over priced for what it is, which is probably due to what looks like a significant up front website cost.

That name is dumb. I read their story, I understand it's his son's name. Like you said though, is the dude a hacker? Why name it in such a silly way?

I've worked in technology forever and would just never name a professional site or product like that. Even wit the goofy product name, the site itself guarantees 'normal' people type it in 'how it sounds' and would never find it, which is going to reduce visibility and sales beyond those just turned off by the whole naming issue altogether.

If he paid much for the site, I'm guessing it may have been done by a 'younger' kid, and maybe the kid registered the domain name for him, as well.

I do like the story of the product, but the name just drives me nuts.

[dauntedfuture]

For what its worth: I currently run three presses. I have an RCBS rock chucker that I use very little, a 550 and a 650. I got the RCBS press at 22 years ago and it served me well for rifle stuff. It was a pain with pistol. 20 years ago I got a 550 and have loaded who knows how many rounds on it. I got a 650 about 4 years ago and it has not got all that much use compared to the other presses. I bought and sold a Hornady LNL auto index press to buy the 650 after an ill fated LNL adventure. Ill be the first to admit that the LNL has some features that are nice but if your looking at a LNL vs 650, save your money and buy the 650.

I really like the 550 and it has lots going for it. I have fewer problems with it and in general its about as fast as the 650 is as on the 550 I load a bullet and feed a case and on the 650 I just feed bullets. I have had parts break on the 650 and the auto feed is not as smooth as I would like with .223, some of this could be me I know but with the 550 these are non-issues.

The real advantage of the 650 is that you have 5 stations so I run a powder check. The case feeder is quite nice. It is a faster press.

If I could only have one press it would be the 550.

Cheers

[rdinga]

When you list your unique user needs, being able to set up and take down narrow the field. Just one guys opinion here. I would look at the square deal. Set it up on either a Dillon smart mount or inline fabrication mount. Bolt the entire set up to a piece of 3/4" plywood that extends about 2" all the way around the smart mount's base and then you take the whole setup down in under a minute and when its time to load, just bolt it back to the bench and go. The other presses mentioned have a larger footprint in exchange for the more advanced features and will not lend themselves to rapid setup and take down as easily. Please excuse the poor photo but it gets the point across. the same concept can be used with a square deal.

there is an enormous amount of talent on this board and I bet there are lots of photos of excellent designs that will allow easy take down and set up.

[jmorris]

The first progressive press's my brother and I bought were SD's, they cost $130 back then.

They have loaded many thousands of rounds over the decades.

Back then we mounted them to wood blocks that we clamped in our Fathers bench vise in the garage, to load, and stored them in our closet when not in use.

I made a mount for them to work up loads that fit into a 2" reciever, to be used remotely, before I had a range in the backyard.

After a thread here a few years ago, I even spent a few hours and rigged up a case feed for one of them. Really, just because it "couldn't be done".

Video of it here.

http://vid121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/SDcasefeed/MOV02172.mp4

Last 100 rounds I loaded on it took just under 10 min, no case feed.

For what they cost now and other machines available I would buy a different press.

Edited November 16, 2014 by jmorris

[dpollard]

Give me a second to get my flame suit on......okay....I'm ready. When I first started shooting higher volume pistol I bought a Lee Pro 1000. It's small and simple to use. You will find PLENTY of people badmouthing it online, however, I found it to be a very productive press once I took the time to get it set up properly. I loaded up close to 10,000 rounds with it, no problems. I have since upgraded to a 650 but don't over look the Pro 1000.

[hceuterpe]

I guess it's possible the Pro 1000 is somehow better. But rest assured the Loadmaster is GARBAGE. I put up with that thing for almost a year before I gave up and upgraded. You go from a LM to something like a Dillon or LnL and within a minute, you'll notice why it costs more, how much better it is, and that the extra cost is justified.

I think the biggest fault of the LM (other than their poor QC and tolerance in manufacturing to keep costs down) is that the LM primes on the upstroke. Though as I understand, the Pro 1000 does as well. There's way too much stuff going on with a 5-station press to also prime as well at the same time. So of course (and especially with 9mm) you don't know the primer tipped and you are about to crush it...until you hear it being crushed. Additionally, one station is completely wasted because of this, so it's not truly a 5-station.

Lee dies are fine. Lee single stage is great (especially for the price). I've also heard only good things about their turret presses. But for their progressive? Look elsewhere.

[BeerBaron]

Priming on the upstroke on the lm is actually a desirable feature. It also has primer seat depth adjustment. You realize the Dillon s1050 primes on the up stoke too? It's 6 station.

That station is not wasted either. I run a universal decapper in station 1 and run the lee sizer (with decap pin removed) in station 2. This also makes the priming much more reliable as the die helps ensure the case is right on centre and holds it while it's being primed. I agree the qc is very hit and miss but how mine is setup now it runs very well.

[Just4FunLP]

I've only been reloading 9mm minor for a little over a year now using a 650 with the case feeder. I clean a load of cases every other week, fill my primer tubes while watching TV with the family, and reload 500 rounds at a time while my wife and daughter watch their favorite shows. I've done this every week for 14 months now, and can pump'em out and clean up in about 1.5 to 2 hours if everything runs smooth. I cant imagine not having a case feeder. I just bought a large media separator and it seems to speed up the case cleaning process as well.

The roller handle metal and bullet tray are nice, but the powder level alarm is pretty useless when loading 500 rounds of 9mm. I also enjoy listening to music on my iPhone and it could be real easy to miss the powder check alarm while I'm using the ear buds. I don't think I've ever had a double load.

The only thing that bugs me is every 25-50 rounds or so the sizing/depriming die comes down on the mouth of the case and I have to stop and push the top of the case in just a bit. Never figured this one out. Other than that the two small parts that broke was replaced by Dillon with no questions asked. You tell them what part you want, they ask for your address, and that's it. Done. I actually lost one of the items and wanted to buy more, but they sent it for free. I was very impressed.

I almost never make any adjustments and try as hard a I can to stick to the same load, so I can't say how much is involved in changing from one type of ammo to the next. In fact, other than vacuuming it out and lubing it every so often, I've never really cleaned it (and it is a mess), but it keeps on running..

All this has cost a fortune, but I really love to shoot...

Funny... Other than constantly watching for #@%* ?!&^ +~,/ > =+ (ran out of characters) pistol powder, that's all I know about reloading.

[Kaldor]

I went back and forth between Red and Blue before I bought my press. Initial investment on the press and me adding a case feeder later, I considered the cost between the LnL and the 650 about the same and not a factor.

For my needs, which are load several calibers, and not do a ton of volume (500 per hour), the LnL was a better choice.

For you, being that you want to set up and run a single caliber, I would go with a 650.

[Alw041]

I own a LnL AP, but you can't go wrong with either one.

[Alw041]

A Dillon and Hornady are about the same price if you buy the press and case feeder. If you don't want a case feeder, Hornady will be cheaper for just the press.

[ano]

with that volume... isnt just buying factory ammo cheaper?

[MilkMyDuds]

with that volume... isnt just buying factory ammo cheaper?

Not really. I am loading with SDB, about 1000 rounds per month. With Titegroup and Xtreme plated 147gr, each round costs about 12 cents, assuming brass are free. Where can you buy factory 147gr loaded to minimum power floor for 12 cents, or even 20 cents per round?

[johnsons1480]

or even 20 cents per round?

Freedom Munitions http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/2036.htm

Seth M. Johnson

[ano]

with that volume... isnt just buying factory ammo cheaper?

Not really. I am loading with SDB, about 1000 rounds per month. With Titegroup and Xtreme plated 147gr, each round costs about 12 cents, assuming brass are free. Where can you buy factory 147gr loaded to minimum power floor for 12 cents, or even 20 cents per round?

I buy my ammo for 14 cents per round (IPSC geco 124gr)

and I usually sell my used brass for around 3-4 cent

[MilkMyDuds]

or even 20 cents per round?

Freedom Munitions http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/2036.htm

Seth M. Johnson

I used to shoot freedom exclusively. Their 147gr chronoed 1000+FPS, while mine at 880FPS. By no means low PF. You should compare shooting that with my handload, then you know why.

Edited January 27, 2015 by MilkMyDuds

[MilkMyDuds]

with that volume... isnt just buying factory ammo cheaper?

Not really. I am loading with SDB, about 1000 rounds per month. With Titegroup and Xtreme plated 147gr, each round costs about 12 cents, assuming brass are free. Where can you buy factory 147gr loaded to minimum power floor for 12 cents, or even 20 cents per round?

I buy my ammo for 14 cents per round (IPSC geco 124gr)

and I usually sell my used brass for around 3-4 cent

What MV do you get with that ammo?

[johnsons1480]

or even 20 cents per round?

Freedom Munitions http://www.freedommunitions.com/category-s/2036.htm

Seth M. Johnson

I used to shoot freedom exclusively. Their 147gr chronoed 1000+FPS, while mine at 880FPS. By no means low PF. You should compare shooting that with my handload, then you know why.

I was referencing your $0.20 per round stat, not the power factor. I was answering the second half of your question. I handload all of my ammo and realize I'm only saving $0.055 a round. I like being able to control the power factor. I only shoot 1,200 is rounds/month. I still think it's more economical to handload my ammo. I paid $914.50 for my 550 in 9mm from Brian with all of the bells and whistles I wanted. It will take my 16,627 rounds to break even. I'll be over that hump by the end of this year, and that press will last me a lifetime. I totally agree that handloading is the way to go; I was just saying it can be bought for $0.20 a round. Less if you shoot 124 gr bullets like I do.

To your other point, Freedom Munitions ammo chronos so high because it should make power factor in any gun. Think Glock 26. That is another thumbs up for handloading. You only have to make power factor in YOUR gun.

[zulu4]

As a SDB loader I was more than interested in this topic since I have owned & loaded on my SDB for approx. 20 years, 45acp & 38 spl/357. Great machine for my modest needs---approx. 600 rounds per month total. Since I have retired, I now have more time to shoot and crank out ammo. I must decide whether to purchase another SDB ( 1 for large primers & 1 for small primers) or go to another machine--550 or 650. My requirements will increase to about 1000 to 1200 per month -- adding 40 cal. & 9mm, with 45 acp & 9mm being the primary volume. My thinking is, the increase volume, time saved with caliber changes & per round cost will justify additional purchase. Dillon customer service is outstanding so I have never considered another manufacturer. Comments are welcomed