Steve Anderson Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I can imagine Max's hunger for Open, I'll bet on him again. Eric's chief advantage is that he's used to winning, and his subconscious moves him back to that goal if anything gets out of whack during the match. Tilley could surprise at any time with a real nice breakout, if the stages feature hard shots on the move. Max will need to be better then Eric at everything, including the mental game, and Eric will need to worry about being beaten at some point. I got to watch Rob on several stages at last year's Nats and was struck by this simple fact: He always makes the shot. He also has a huge mental advantage over the challengers in that he doesn't wonder if he CAN win, he expects to. (same with Eric) This is the real reason that it's so hard to beat the perpetual winners. It's not that they are THAT much better, its that they expect to win. We always shoot how we expect to shoot, not how we want to shoot. Open: Max Limited: TGO or Travis Travis trains with Max, and those guys KNOW this game. Phil, if you can keep from trying... Lim 10 - Koenig has some motivation now... Production: Hard to say without the roster, but when TGO worries about Sevigny, it's hard to bet against him. Again, Sevigny's subconscious pulls him to win, not to wonder. Wheelgun: Give it to Jerry over the phone and save him the trouble. I think it would be a hoot to shoot wheel gun for a year, dry fire like mad and teke on Jerry. I wish I liked wheelguns more. Watch for Kyle "Flexmoney" Farris to break out big if he practices hard. I think I'll shot production in the second match with the new XD. Should have the gun this week and just need to get the G ASAP. Can't wait! SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Lumber is my good buddy from Nats, Mr. Pain and Rage, Erik Lund. hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 Sorry guys, but the only one that can beat TGO in Limited is Voigt. I love Phil to death... but unless he's REALLY practicing, it ain't gonna happen.but I stand by what (most) everybody is saying. Rob sucks to shoot against with iron sights on a 1911 frame. That's all there is to it. - J1B Thanks Jake, Now I get it. Shooter Girl, I gotta argue with you on that, history shows the ONLY guy who can actually beat TGO with iron sights is the Burner. In fact since TGO took up a high cap in 98, Burner is the only guy to win a Limited. Hell Robbie shot a skinny gun in 97 against all the highcaps and won about half the stages anyway!! When Burner, or TJ wins a Nats it's just one of the big three claiming the prize. If it is anybody else, we'll scream upset!!! Over the eleven years we've had Limited Nats (93-04) it's been TJ once, Burner four times and TGO six. He (Robbie) has made himself a target though with that streak. It's at five now. Whoever breaks it will be THE heir apparent. Limited is such a deep ocean of talent right now, you can probably name ten solid contenders, but who will it be. And when? How much longer can TGO cruelly dominate the sport? That's the real drama of the Nats to me. A couple of other guys mentioned some other shooter winning L10. BLASTPHEMY!!!! J1B got it right, and that's even more true when you take away the high cap round count advantage. All that being said, I like the new layout. It allows those who want to swim in BOTH deep ponds (Open and Limited) to do so, while at the same time allowing almost everyone to shoot both nats with any one gun, Open excluded. I hope they keep it that way for 06, I am already planning my vacation around it. Bravo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 DP40 - Funny, I was thinking the same thing when I read that. I'd really love to see Jerry back at the Nationals. Due to the format, I think both Limited & L10 will both be a horse race. There are a number of people that "can" beat TGO, they just haven't quite figured out "how" yet. I wouldn't count Manny, Phil, Travis or Voigt out. They all have the skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 don't get me wrong, I don't discount those guys at all. Just five in a row and six of the last seven plus L10's is a pretty convincing resume'. Production is a one man show right now, although the race for second is getting interesting. Revo should be renamed "second to Jerry" and that guy should get a national trophy. Open there's maybe four top guys, call it eight with visitors, ten if Burner and TJ shoot. L10 is a side show, but a tight one for second if the same guys choose it over Open. Limited is THE race, and it's AT LEAST 16 shooters deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Wow, this is pretty exciting. I'm really curious in the equipment shift done by Eric. I'd like to see if there's really any change in performance levels with the lighter cmore. And that's mainly because we've eternally talked about that equipment advantage that can only be seen in the upper tiers of competitors. Also, anybody know if he's also shooting limited? Last time I read from his posts, he wanted a heavier gun with a longer mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 history shows the ONLY guy who can actually beat TGO with iron sights is the Burner. Go back through and look at the times Voigt and TGO actually competed against each other in Limited. Be sure to check the World Shoots too. Robbie is World Champ now, but just before him, it was Voigt. And I can name MORE than 10 in Limited I'm SO looking forward to the Nationals this year!!!!! Especially as an RO - I get to see EVERYONE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Jake, Thanks for the introduction. Lumber was my high school nickname. I earned it for a number of reasons, but one of them was my deceiving agility (Remember the impending collision with the wall on the hill at the Nationals?) Kinda like calling a 350lb. man "Tiny." Don't worry Jake, there will always be a darker side of me that holds back the "Pain and Rage." Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 1, 2005 Share Posted February 1, 2005 Man I will never forget that freakin stage. As soon as you started to move I was like "wow he's haulin!" then I realized you were heading for the wall, man I thought that thing was toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Know what I'd like to see? Grauffel shooting Limited against Leatham and Tomasie, that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 history shows the ONLY guy who can actually beat TGO with iron sights is the Burner. Go back through and look at the times Voigt and TGO actually competed against each other in Limited. Be sure to check the World Shoots too. Robbie is World Champ now, but just before him, it was Voigt. And I can name MORE than 10 in Limited I'm SO looking forward to the Nationals this year!!!!! Especially as an RO - I get to see EVERYONE! Yup, Voigt won some World Shoots, but did TGO shoot Standard then? I wish RObbie had entered Standard back from 97, he's be on his 4rth!!! I have to admit though I am a fan of how Voigt seems to have come on later in life and started to get right to the top of the heap. I'm impressed. (Still have to vote TGO though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I think Grauffel shot Limited in 2003 or something. I think he placed around 7th. Open is his domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Schwab Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I think Grauffel shot Limited in 2003 or something. I think he placed around 7th. Open is his domain. Yeah, that's right, forgot about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I believe Grauffel was 4th in Limited last year. About 98or 95% of Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 Eric was 4th in 2003 at Bend Oregon. I'll never forget that match...damn it. Eric is an incredible Limited/Standard shooter. He and I went head to head with a slew of other great Limited shooters in Costa Rica's 2003 Tropical Cup. For the first day, we were back and forth, but his consistency and ability to hit the steel plates one for one put us all to shame. I think is was: Eric Me JJ JoJo Frank G. I can't wait to go back this year for the Columbus Cup. Unfortunately, Eric will be shooting Open there, but I'm sure we'll still have a blast. I tried to talk him into shooting Limited at the Nationals, but I don't think he's going to. He is truly an amazing shooter, Open or Limited. I'd give anything to practice with him for about a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 You know, Steve nailed it. I only know this from personal experience - but TGO has that attitude of "I expect to win" Let's think about that - winning for him (or Eric) is onlyExpected. For most of us, winning actually exceeds the expectations we have of ourselves. Not for them. I was fortunate in the early years to shoot a bunch with TGO. We shot matches together, we practiced together, we did a lot of crap together (although not to the extent of BE (so I don't exagerate here)) I was generally able to do, keep up, and sometimes exceed what he did. It was occassional but nevertheless there. Once, in a long gone publication, he touted me as a possible "next in line" in the sport. The reality is though that when gameday came I was rarely the guy who came out on top. No huge wins, no majors, nothing much at all really. All of that to say my abilities at the time were at least close to comparable. His mind set was, is, and probably will continue to be better than mine. I pick TGO for limited (repetitive again). Phil, you've got it and I hope you convert that to the "W". My bet though is on TGO. I've competed way too many times with him and know that inevitably he only expects to win. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I think the talent pool in Limited is just amaaazing right now. (and that is without TJ and Barhart being on the scene very much) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 JB, This is the curse of the new GM. You get the G, you squad with Max and Chris. Now what the hell do you do? Good goals are hard to come by, and your subconscious skills can only pull you to your goal. What's your goal? Do you REALLY BELIEVE you can beat Max Freakin' Michel? At some point you (I) must. Do you REALLY BELIEVE you can go head to head with Chris Tilley? One day, you're (I'm) gonna have to. Eric Grauffel knows this better than anyone, and his self-image REQUIRES him to win. Same with TGO. That's enough extreme honesty for one day... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Eric was 4th in 2003 at Bend Oregon. I'll never forget that match...damn it. I would really like to know how he tanked that Standards stage. Was it a gun malf or did he just hose too fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I can't wait to go back this year for the Columbus Cup. Unfortunately, Eric will be shooting Open there, but I'm sure we'll still have a blast.I tried to talk him into shooting Limited at the Nationals, but I don't think he's going to. He is truly an amazing shooter, Open or Limited. I'd give anything to practice with him for about a week. Phil, a guy who lives there bought Eric's old Limited gun. Eric asked the guy if he could shoot it, so maybe he'll shoot the match in both divisions If you want to train with him, there must be possibilities, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 That's great news. Now if TJ and the Burner decide to shoot Limited! How cool would that be? The biggest obsticle for me is time. I just don't have it. I'm always running around, between work, my wife, the baby, the store, the team, and the matches, I just don't know what else I could fit in. I'm MAKING time to practice/exercise, but that's tuff. and mcoliver, Eric just plain old missed...and hit a no-shoot, I think. It was a hard stage. I crawled through it, and still did OK, just b/c I didn't miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thanks for the info Phil. Such is the fact of our game, we win some and lose some. (But I guess for his case, he wins most and lose some. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CzechM8 Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Just a thought here...I wonder if Team CZ is gonna bring their rather recent acquisition Adam Tyc to the US Nats to challenge David S. He won the last Europeans as well as the AustralAsian Championship - both of them ahead of Angus H. IMHO this guy is the most serious threat to David S. and I can't wait to find out how they do at the WS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 CzechM8, I was thinking the same thing. I think Adam should be almost on par with David (though I'd bet my $$ on Dave) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I still believe that Dave is a machine. There is no one that can touch him in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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