TUL 9MM Ammo

[CANDERSEN]

Recently I was testing the accuracy of various cheap bulk 9mm ammo (25 yards - 5 round groups) from my 4th Generation Glock 34, I was surprised to find that the Russian, steel cased, Tul 9mm 115 FMJ ammo was consistently the most accurate tested and also the cheapest. It averaged approximately 2.40 inches.

Anyone have similar results????

[bigtimelarry]

Broke an Extractor using that Crap..

[CANDERSEN]

Federal Aluminum 115 FMJ - Averaged 4.25"

Blazer Brass 115 FMJ - Averaged 4.50"

Blazer Aluminum 115 FMJ - Averaged 4.00"

Speer Gold Dot 124 +P - Averaged 2,00"

Freedom Arms 147 FMJ - Averaged 3.80 inches - soft shooting/vertical stringing

Freedom Arms 115 FMJ - fliers - several rounds off the paper

Speer 124 FMJ - Averaged 4.30"

TUL 115 FMJ - Averaged 2.40"

[Erik4e]

I have shot close to 1000 rds of it out of my g34. No issues here.

[toothandnail]

I've shot 4K+ out of mine, never checked for accuracy, but i've went to hand loads for less recoil. They are cheaper still

[bountyhunter]

Broke an Extractor using that Crap..

+1 There's a saying: commie ammo goes in commie guns. The guns made to cycle steel case ammo have looser throats to accomodate the fact that the steel case does not "shrink back" as far as brass. It's harder to extract and can cause cycling problems and broken extractors. You can get a cheapo barrel and ream the throat to cycle it, I would not use it in a good gun or any gun with a match grade barrel.

[bountyhunter]

Recently I was testing the accuracy of various cheap bulk 9mm ammo (25 yards - 5 round groups) from my 4th Generation Glock 34, I was surprised to find that the Russian, steel cased, Tul 9mm 115 FMJ ammo was consistently the most accurate tested and also the cheapest. It averaged approximately 2.40 inches.

Anyone have similar results????

Accuracy of ammo is so unpredictable it has long puzzled me. I've seen bench tests where four different brands of ammo scatter differently in three different guns. Sometimes the same ammo will vary in two different (same model) guns, it is kind of unpredictable.

That said, the most accurate .38 ammo I ever saw was what my buddy made out of melted down wheel weights and hand loaded. My 25 yard groups went from about 3" to 1" with that stuff (revo with 6" barrel and red dot).

I guess the old saying is true: buy whatever your gun likes.

Edited September 27, 2014 by bountyhunter

[bountyhunter]

I have shot close to 1000 rds of it out of my g34. No issues here.

Not sure how loose Glock specs their barrels? Since it's a service weapon, I doubt that it would be on the tight side.

[CANDERSEN]

I know that steel ammo can damage the extractors on the M4/AR15 type service weapons and its not recommended for them. I was hoping to find out and/or hear that others had no issues with it in service handguns, perhaps because of the lower chamber pressure. I did find a thread from a "high profile" firearms trainer in another forum that seems to indicate this. In addition he also noted superior accuracy as compared to other bulk type ammo.

[ToddKS]

My concern about the "commie" ammo is the bimetal jackets on the bullets. I saw a test where the bimetal jackets definitely wore barrels faster on AR-15's. In this test the barrel was producing key hole impacts on paper at 25 yards within 5000 rounds. Barrel firing USA manufactured, copper jacketed rounds was still good at 10,000.

I don't know what the wear pattern would be like with 9mm given that it is a slower round, but I would believe it would increase wear to some extent.

[CANDERSEN]

This is the first I heard of the bimetal jackets....maybe with Glocks polygonal type bore this would be less of an issue......but I have concerns. I want to use this round because of the accuracy, but not at the expense of tearing up my guns.

[ron169]

Do a cost benefit analysis. Say it takes 5k rounds to wear out a barrel and an extractor. Also say you save 5 bucks a box over your second choice. Well over the course of 5k rounds, 100 boxes of ammo, you save 500 bucks. Take 150 for a new barrel and 30 for a new extractor and throw in another 20 for a new ejector. Then take the other 300 and spend on hookers and beer!

[Steve RA]

Excellent analysis !!!

[toothandnail]

My concern about the "commie" ammo is the bimetal jackets on the bullets. I saw a test where the bimetal jackets definitely wore barrels faster on AR-15's. In this test the barrel was producing key hole impacts on paper at 25 yards within 5000 rounds. Barrel firing USA manufactured, copper jacketed rounds was still good at 10,000.

I don't know what the wear pattern would be like with 9mm given that it is a slower round, but I would believe it would increase wear to some extent.

I'd like to know what kind of junk barrel they started with.

Commie ammo is all I've shot in my AR bought 6?? years ago, I just this year started using "real" ammo. A conservitive estimate would be 2K rounds per year.

I have no problem getting hits out to 500, last match went 1/1 from 200 out to 350.

I bought most of this "crappy " ammo for >$0.19 , who CARES about a barrel, I saved enough to buy a couple of AR's

[ToddKS]

I believe the test was done with 3 out of the box Bushmaster AR's. You certainly could debate the quality of the starting product. Given the nature of the test it is likely that rate of fire played a role in the barrel wear as well.

[bountyhunter]

My concern about the "commie" ammo is the bimetal jackets on the bullets. I saw a test where the bimetal jackets definitely wore barrels faster on AR-15's. In this test the barrel was producing key hole impacts on paper at 25 yards within 5000 rounds. Barrel firing USA manufactured, copper jacketed rounds was still good at 10,000.

I don't know what the wear pattern would be like with 9mm given that it is a slower round, but I would believe it would increase wear to some extent.

Most of the references I have seen indicate a negligible difference in wear because the barrel steel is so much harder than the jacket steel.

"Frankford Arsenal conducted a test with steel jacketed 30-06 rounds around 1946 to determine if the rumors that steel jacketed bullets damaged the barrels more than copper jacketed bullets were true. In their testing they found that steel jacketed bullets not only didn't accelerate wear but they also discovered for the first 1000 rounds steel jacketed rounds were actually more accurate! After 1000 rounds the accuracy leveled off to be comparable to the copper jacketed bullets but no evidence of accelerated wear was discovered through 8,000 rounds of testing on their samples."

https://www.facebook.com/militaryarms/posts/516101628401641

The military allegedly has been using steel jacket ammo for decades and ran extensive tests to see if the barrels would wear more and found they did not. The worst numbers I saw were people claiming steel jacket ammo increased wear by maybe 10% over copper.

YMMV

Edited September 28, 2014 by bountyhunter

[toothandnail]

I believe the test was done with 3 out of the box Bushmaster AR's. You certainly could debate the quality of the starting product. Given the nature of the test it is likely that rate of fire played a role in the barrel wear as well.

I would agree 100% with that.

My example of one barrel/wear may also be out of the norm.

[ToddKS]

My concern about the "commie" ammo is the bimetal jackets on the bullets. I saw a test where the bimetal jackets definitely wore barrels faster on AR-15's. In this test the barrel was producing key hole impacts on paper at 25 yards within 5000 rounds. Barrel firing USA manufactured, copper jacketed rounds was still good at 10,000.

I don't know what the wear pattern would be like with 9mm given that it is a slower round, but I would believe it would increase wear to some extent.

I'd like to know what kind of junk barrel they started with.

Commie ammo is all I've shot in my AR bought 6?? years ago, I just this year started using "real" ammo. A conservitive estimate would be 2K rounds per year.

I have no problem getting hits out to 500, last match went 1/1 from 200 out to 350.

I bought most of this "crappy " ammo for >$0.19 , who CARES about a barrel, I saved enough to buy a couple of AR's

Very valid point here regarding the savings vs. the cost of the barrel. Ultimately all barrels are consumable products that will require replacement.

For example, if a new barrel is $300 and expected to last 10,000 rounds but you burn it up in 5,000 with cheap ammo (not saying you will, just an example), that would cost you $150 in barrel life. If you saved $.20 a round on the cheaper ammo, however, you saved $1000 in ammo cost. Your net win would be $850. Assuming the cheaper ammo does everything you need it to, you choose that option every time.

[CANDERSEN]

Big Time Larry - what gun did you break your extractor on?

[Moltke]

I have shot many many thousands of rounds of russian steel cased ammo out of my Glock34 without problems, but that doesn't change the fact that its crap ammo.

ETA: By the way your results are surprising because I always found it to be average accuracy at best.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Moltke

[gerritm]

Here is the AR15 barrel test of steel vs brass cased ammo. Not sure how this transfer to pistol ammo, but it is interesting.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

gerritm

[CANDERSEN]

Yes I am very suprised that it was the most accurate.....I tested the ammo again with another 4th Gen Glock and got the same results.

[bigtimelarry]

Big Time Larry - what gun did you break your extractor on?

Glock 17 Gen4

[CANDERSEN]

In light of what happend to Bigtimelarry, I think I will limit my use of this type of ammo. It shoots to the same point of aim as my Gold Dot 124grain +p - so I will use it for sighting in purposes.