Dies for 38 special on a 550?

[tompt]

I have a 550 that I've used for 9mm and 45acp and am about to buy a caliber conversion for 38 special.

In both 9mm and 45acp, I've used a separate crimp die. However, looking at the RCBS die sets, it looks like they seat and crimp in one die. What should I do for 38 special? Is a separate die for crimping important? I know both lee and Dillion have 4-die sets. What is gained by using the fourth die? I can't imagine RCBS would sell a 3-die set if it wasn't able to get the job done.

[freakshow10mm]

The seater die has a crimp function in it so it's done in one step. Basically, set the OAL first, then back out the seating stem and turn the die body down until you get the crimp, finally turn the seating stem down until it stops. Now your die will seat and crimp in one step.

Some prefer to seat and crimp in separate dies. It is really personal preference. Some say you get more control and consistency with separate crimp die. I use a separate crimp die out of convenience and because I use a Redding competition seating die that has no crimp function.

[bowenbuilt]

I haven't seated and crimped in one operation in years but when I did it would push up lead under and ahead the crimp on a lead bullets and flatten the hell out of a jacketed hollow point's nose. Yes you can do it but unless you use a very light crimp you will probably not like the results. If you skip the separate seat and then crimp you are crimping the bullet before it stops moving while it is being seated.

Edited September 22, 2014 by bowenbuilt

[Jakobi]

Buy a LEE crimp die and seat and crimp in separate steps. I've seen too many screwed up rounds from seating and crimping in the same step that I've never bothered with the practice.

[tompt]

If you skip the separate seat and then crimp you are crimping the bullet before it stops moving while it is being seated.

Now that you mention it, that seems obvious. I've never seen it put quite like that, but it sure makes sense.

Thanks!

[GhettoSmack]

If you can find it/them, try the Lyman seating die/set. The Lyman seating die comes with multiple bullet shape inserts that really come in handy.

[jcc7x7]

Lee

Like the sizing dies

[BallisticianX]

I have always seated and crimped seperately when loading lead or plated bullets without a cannelure or crimp groove. As already pointed out it damages the bullet as the crimp is being applied while the bullet is still moving to the desired length. For a cast lead pill this shears lead off and pinches it in the case mouth. Therefore it relocates as a deposit in the bore and causes deficiency in the accuracy dept but more so becomes a downright pain in the a$$ to clean the bore. With plated bullets it can pierce the thin copper plating and cause sepperation and unstable bullet flight and as a bonus that unwanted lead deposit buildup thats so fun to remove. Now with roll crimping a jacketed bullet with a cannelure for magnums using one die for both operations is something I do regularly. The cannelure eliminates the shearing problem for the most part as it is a recessed surface and thus more forgiving, with proper adjustment of where the crimp lands in the cannelure. Not to mention I do my magnums in small batches on a single stage press and it makes for a more convenient process. I am yet to exibit the type of problems I have experienced with the before mentioned lead and plated bullets with regard to shearing in jacketed bullets with a cannelure. Simotaneous seat/crimping on a Jacketed cannelure has no effect on accuracy in the least either. My .44 mag loads in my scoped Ruger Super Blackhawk shoots quarter sized 3 shot groups at 50 yards, 2" at 100yds (Lil Gun in the .44 mag is magic).

[BallisticianX]

Oh and as far as dies to use, Dillon and Hornady are all I use in the progressives for straight wall stuff and they have been flawless. They both have the wide mouths required for progressive press operations. I myself have gone almost exclusively to the hornady dies. I really like there seating die with the alignment sleeve. It eliminates bullet bulge and loads very concentric ammo... and at a considerably less price than other alignment sleeve die sets. If you wanna pony up more money on bling Redding makes some dies designed for progressives and though I havent used them I imagine they are going to be damn good as they have a reputation for precision and quality that I can attest to that with there rifle dies. For single stage deployment I use only Redding and Forster dies. I stay away from Lee and RCBS for anything. Lee, though it works, is just barely good enough to work most of the time and in alot of cases are crude in design and dimensional consistancy. There Factory Crimp die is probably the best contribution they ever made to the reloading world, I never had the need to use one myself but only hear good things about it, so Ill give em that.. RCBS, in the past was good. Now I think there quest for cutting costs have resulted in a quality slide and I had alot of problems with stuff I have used in the recent years.

Edited September 27, 2014 by BallisticianX

[GARD72977]

BallisticianX gave some great advice. I have not loaded 38 on a 550 in years but when I was doing it with RCBS dies they did not run as smooth as other calibers with dillion dies. There is a difference in dies made to run on progressive presses.

[VIPERONE]

An old post that needed a little more input.

I load lots of 38 Special on a 550B.

I shoot mainly the Missouri Bullet Company 158 Round Nose with Blue Lube.

Like most who do any competition shooting, I load by the ammo can, not the box.

As far as I am concerned Dillon makes the only 38 Special dies to use with the 550B. Why?

When you start to get lube/lead build up in the Seater die. Just pull the clip. Clean the insides up, and reassemble. This takes about 1 Minute to do with nothing to re-adjust.

Crimp Die getting Lube/Lead Build Up. Same deal, pull the clip and drop the guts out. Clean them up, again about 1 minute, and reinstall with no change in adjustment.

I cleaned both last night.

Seat and crimp in 2 steps is the best way to go.

When I started reloading 38 Special, I had a steel RCBS die set.

As soon as RCBS Carbide Dies came out I bought them, and gave away my steel die set to a friend getting started.

I have now changed to Dillon dies for: 38/357, 40 S&W/10mm, 44 Magnum, and 45acp/45AR. The only pistol cartridge I am loading for without the Dillon dies would be my 480 Ruger, which Dillon does not make a die set for. If you did not see a 9mm listed, the reason is, I do not own a 9mm revolver at the moment. If I get another SP101 9mm or a 929 S&W, I will get Dillon Dies to load 9mm also.

Bob

Big Creek Kydex Speed Loader Carriers

Edited December 23, 2014 by VIPERONE

[Jim Watson]

I never had any trouble seating and crimping real revolver bullets with a proper crimp groove in one step.

But there are so many slick plated bullets, lightly cannelured jacketed bullets, and bulk cast bullets with dinky crimp grooves on the market now that a four die set makes a lot of sense.

Dillon dies on a Dillon machine make sense.

As said, their inserts make cleaning dies easy if you load wax lubed cast bullets. Unfortunately, their inserts make seating and crimping adjustments difficult, you are turning the whole die body in loose 14 tpi threads. If you never change bullets, that is ok. If you do load different bullets for different jobs or as available or curiosity causes, a finer adjustment is a big help. I found myself with a number of different .45 bullets. I went for a while with a Lyman seating die - second hand steel die sets used to be cheap at gun shows - and its 20TPI seating plug helped. Now I have a Hornady seating die with micrometer plug. The Redding might be nicer but it also costs a lot more.

If you don't load wax lubed bullets, the cleanout system of the Dillon dies is redundant.

I have not bought an RCBS die in years. The ones I have are good quality but they do not have the mouth radius that a progressive loader needs.

[PatJones]

I use an RCBS .38 special seater die in my single stage specifically because it crimps in the same step. Lead revolver bullets have a cannelure groove and work great with the roll crimp feature of the RCBS die. You do need to bell the case mouth correctly, but they do not shave lead if your bullet has the correct groove. The descriptions above are for semi-auto bullets.