rde1911 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) I have a Dilon XL 650. I have been loading 9mm, 380, 38/357 and 45ACP. I use Dardas lead cast bullets. It states on his website that you should not flare the case mouth with the powder funnel. It says that even with the correct flare on the brass cases it will damage the lead bullet when seating. This will affect the accuracy of your finished bullets. He state that you should use a Lyman 2 step M Expander Die. I do not see how this will work on a progressive press like the Dillon XL 650. Does the Dillon seating die center the bullet before seating so the bullet does not get damaged? Has anyone seen this and what have you done to ensure that the bullet does not get damaged when seating the bullet. Thanks for any input on this. Edited August 20, 2014 by rde1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copecowboy22 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I don't have a 650 (yet) but I use my own cast bullets and several commercial cast in 45. I flare with the powder die and seat and crimp in the next. Never had an issue with accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaster113 Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) I've loaded many thousands of lead 9mm, .40 and .45 bullets with Dillon dies/powder funnels in my 550/650 and have had no issues with accuracy. except for issues with the guy who has his booger picker on the bang switch haha. Just have to not overcrimp the rounds. I follow book specs for case mouth diameter and havent had any trouble. I say use the Dillon dies/powder funnel and load em up Edited August 20, 2014 by blaster113 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 you could set the powder funnel to not flare the case as it drops powder and then put the M die in the next station (where the powder check goes) and then seat in the next station and crimp in the last. All you will be losing is the powder check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob DuBois Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 I'm 69 loaded thousands of lead bullets through 550's and a 650. Fan of Lee's first stage sizing die which will size brass a little tighter and closer to the extractor groove. I'll put my powder funnels in a drill press and polish them down a little so the first part goes in the sized brass with little effort, Then polish bright with Simichrome polish. It's worked fine for a lot of years. Polish the inside of the funnel with a wad of Q Tips and polish to help powder from bridging. I would rather have the powder check working on the 650. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I'm 69 loaded thousands of lead bullets through 550's and a 650. Fan of Lee's first stage sizing die which will size brass a little tighter and closer to the extractor groove. I'll put my powder funnels in a drill press and polish them down a little so the first part goes in the sized brass with little effort, Then polish bright with Simichrome polish. It's worked fine for a lot of years. Polish the inside of the funnel with a wad of Q Tips and polish to help powder from bridging. I would rather have the powder check working on the 650. I have had good accuracey with loading the way the 650 is set up. I would worry about not having the powder measure alarm. I was just interested as in in the front of the website I order from has some intereesting information, Read what it says here. https://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=b027ed8860b38d1a3e6de09bfc52e613&Screen=SFNT&Order=0&Store_Code=dardas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Build4u Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I recently blew the dust off my 550 and loaded some Dardas 200 swc h&g 68 profile. You do want a light flare, and most of the bullet profiles have a bevel on the base as well. The straight section on a Dillon powder funnel before the bevel is an expander. I read that on or in my box of Dardas as well. I am pretty sure they are Made in Michigan. They will shoot great loaded on the 650. My 5 inch Colt was built a little at a time through the early 80s, ended up Bar Sto and Accu Railed and still shot that load a nice tight clover leaf at 25 yds. just resting hands on the bench like you would shooting prone. When loading 9x21 and 38 super on my 1050 I ran an expander in the extra station on the 1050 and my Powder measure only flared. I do not remember how I even got that funnel. The idea was stopping the neck expansion an the exact seating depth of the bullet so jacketed bullets would not push into the case as easy with a lighter crimp. Lead bullets hold a crimp easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevadazielmeister Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 I'm 69 loaded thousands of lead bullets through 550's and a 650. Fan of Lee's first stage sizing die which will size brass a little tighter and closer to the extractor groove. I'll put my powder funnels in a drill press and polish them down a little so the first part goes in the sized brass with little effort, Then polish bright with Simichrome polish. It's worked fine for a lot of years. Polish the inside of the funnel with a wad of Q Tips and polish to help powder from bridging. I would rather have the powder check working on the 650. I have had good accuracey with loading the way the 650 is set up. I would worry about not having the powder measure alarm. I was just interested as in in the front of the website I order from has some intereesting information, Read what it says here. https://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Session_ID=b027ed8860b38d1a3e6de09bfc52e613&Screen=SFNT&Order=0&Store_Code=dardas Yeh, I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then. I have had amazing success with Xtreme bullets. The copper plating is very easy to work with and there is minimal copper fouling and absolutely no lead fouling. Just switch bullets and save yourself money and heart ache. In fact, I reviewed the prices on 9mm and here is a price comparison: Darda Lead Cast - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $12.70 per 100 or, $0.127 per bullet. Xtreme Copper Plated - 9mm - 124 grain round nose - $39.90 per 500 or, $0.08 per bullet. So am confused why anyone would chose Darda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) Nevadaziemeister, You compare the price of 100 verses 500. The price is always lower when you purchase a larger quantity. 9mm X-tream plated 124 grain FN bullets verses the Dardas 124 grain FN cast bullets. Dardas cast 9mm bullets cost $73.00/1000 $00.073 / bullet shipped X-treme 9mm plated bullets $107.00/1000 or $00.107/ bullet shipped. Then I compered Lead bullets from each supplier. The price for 1,000 148 grain lead DEWC bullets X-treme cast lead is $84.80 or $00.085/ bullet shipped. Dardas cast lead is 79/1000 or $00.079 bullets Shipped I do not understand your statements, What did you base your recomendations on? "I read the page about not flaring case mouths. What a joke. I would simply switch to a different bullet then" "So am confused why anyone would chose Darda. " I bought the Lymann 2 step die for 38/.357 bullets. I put the 2 step expander die in the Dillon tool head station 4. I put the Lymann seating / crimp die in station 5. I did not have to remove the powder sensor alarm. The Lymann seating die is also a crimp die. I was able to adjust the seating depth and the correct taper crimp I wanted. I know for a revolver you should use a roll crimp. The retention of the DEWC in the bullet case is very strong. That is why I only set it for a taper crimp. At this time I only have the Lymann 2 step expander die set in 38/.357. I am going to purchase another Llymann 2 step die set for 45ACP. The 2 step die does not stretch the bullet casing as much the Dillon powder feed funnel does. This will increase the amount of times you can reload the same brass. Some friends say they almost doubled the amount of times you can load the same brass. At todays brass prices I hope I do get double the amounts of loads. For a test I made 140 Lead 148 grain DEWC. 70 rounds of bullets using the Dillon dies and 70 using the Lymen dies. I shot my 686 Deluxe with a 6 inch barrel, 7 round cylinder with a Matchdot 2 sight. I check and cleaned the barrel as needed. Out of the 70 bullets I shot that were loaded on with the Dillon dies there were five fliers 8 to 9 inches from center. There were no fliers with the 2 step die set. All of the group sizes were 4 inches and less shooting from a bench. Edited January 6, 2015 by rde1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 I have a Dilon XL 650. I have been loading 9mm, 380, 38/357 and 45ACP. I use Dardas lead cast bullets. It states on his website that you should not flare the case mouth with the powder funnel. It says that even with the correct flare on the brass cases it will damage the lead bullet when seating. This will affect the accuracy of your finished bullets. He state that you should use a Lyman 2 step M Expander Die. I do not see how this will work on a progressive press like the Dillon XL 650. Does the Dillon seating die center the bullet before seating so the bullet does not get damaged? Has anyone seen this and what have you done to ensure that the bullet does not get damaged when seating the bullet. Thanks for any input on this. This is an option I chose that has eliminated any scraping/damage issues I've encountered on the XL650: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205711 Highly recommend the MBR funnel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Thanks for the link, This is a great tool eliminate the problem when you are just putting a bell on the bullet cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I bell my cases on my 650 for lead all the time with no problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Get a Redding a Micrometer Seating Die. It will perfectly align the bullet with the case mouth. I would flare the case using the powder funnel and the let the Rdding Die seat it. If that doesn't work I would change bullet manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I also use the Redding Micrometer seating and crimp dies. What the MBF funnel improved on "my" XL650 was the stabilization of the Bayou bullet prior to actually seating it. I can place the bullet IN the case mouth ready for a straight-in push by the seater with minimal expansion of the brass. Edited January 18, 2015 by HOGRIDER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted January 19, 2015 Author Share Posted January 19, 2015 Here is a good post about using a good set up. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205711 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine582 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Edited February 17, 2015 by rde1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rde1911 Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) There is good information on this in this post Fix for Shaving Lead BulletsStarted by HOGRIDER, Nov 24 2014 12:17 AM Edited February 17, 2015 by rde1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo28 Posted February 28, 2015 Share Posted February 28, 2015 Well, shooting a pistol bullet at say 850FPS at a distance of 10-50yds, will not effect accuracy at all if your jacket/coating/plating has a few scratches or even coating missing from the expander. Your barrel grooves mess up the jacket anyways..... Now a Rifle at around 3kFPS and 500+yds will be effected but not a pistol and not at all noticeable freehand.... Really confused as to why people are concerned about this. I have shaved chunks of lead off the bullet from bad expanders and never noticed those bullets being less accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now