Math question

[robport]

Ok, I've been playing around in IDPA for a few months now, mostly trying not to:

1. Shoot myself

2. Shoot anyone else

3. Get disqualified

4. Keep the rounds in the bullet trap or range trap (no floor, ceiling, or wall)

I've succeeded pretty well in those limited objectives so far.

Today, for the first time, I walked up to see how I did.

I'm almost embarrassed to ask this but:

On one target, I was supposed to put two rounds on it while moving to it at 15 yards.

When I walked up there, I had two rounds in the down one, so I thought it was down 2.

I'm not going to question their call. Heck, it's a club match anyway...but I would like to know.

It was scored down 8, but with no failure to neutralize penalty, and no procedural?

What could I have done wrong?

I was hoping to offer to help with scoring, but if I understand that little about it, I'm going to stay on the sidelines for a while longer...

[mikeAZ]

Were you moving OR did you stop & shoot?.

[dcloudy777]

I can't think of a way to be 8 points down on a two-shot target....

[JohnRodriguez]

a penalty is 3 seconds. don't be scared to point out there mistakes and give a explanation why they scored it like they did.

if you are advancing on a target in the open and it is in the stage description, then round dump, and do a reload in the open, while you go to cover. it's legal and in the rule book. use the rules to your advantage.

[robport]

I was moving and there was no procedural marked on the form.

I'm sorry. This was the wrong place to ask this question. I thought I was in the IDPA forum

Edited July 18, 2014 by robport

[Onagoth]

down 8 is a mike and down 3....but you would also get an FTN

Are you sure the down 8 wasn't multiple targets scored in one line? We've done this at club matches when scoresheets were scarce and scrap paper had to be used

Edited July 18, 2014 by Onagoth

[robport]

I'm pretty sure, there were six targets and each was scored. There is a separate place on the scoresheet for FTN's, procedurals, no-shoots, etc and they were empty on that stage.

I know they were using them too, because I had one no-shoot on another stage (unfortunately, my first grease spot hit). I know I actually hit two -1's in reality.

I'm just wondering how they could have come up with -8...lol

From the responses, it is starting to look like they couldn't...

[dcloudy777]

I was moving and there was no procedural marked on the form.

I'm sorry. This was the wrong place to ask this question. I thought I was in the IDPA forum

It's cool... since this year, we revolver shooters have learned to count to eight... and we've always had to be good at math.

[GOF]

If we are talking about a single target where 2 rounds were scored (or in a Vickers Stage the best two rounds are scored) and you had 2 rounds in the Down-1 scoring area, then it can't be a Down 8. On a single target with two rounds required for score you cannot get a Down 8 unless you have a miss (D-5) and a -3. If it was on a Vickers Stage that would also have to be a FTN (but not on a Limited Vickers Stage). PEs do not go onto the target score section. They, along with FTN, HNT, FTDR, and other penalties are listed separately on another spot on the score sheet.

Are you sure this is what your score on that target was? By Rule, that score can't happen with 2 -1 hits. Did you wind up with one of the brand new "shake & bake" MM or Novice Class SOs that they had to create after the NRB resulted in their losing 30-40% of their veteran SOs ? That could explain it. Or, maybe the SK wasn't paying attention and goofed. New SOs tend to do that.

What your OP reports makes no sense under the Rules. At least, if the Rules are administered by SOs who know what they are doing.

[robport]

It definitely wasn't a new one. I usually don't even look, but I went up this time to see where I hit cause I'm trying to improve my shooting on the move.

The matches run pretty fast, so by the time I usually get reloaded, we are getting ready to go to the line again.

I was thinking...not bad...until I saw that 8 on the scoresheet when they handed it to me after the match.

I don't remember anyone calling down 8 on a target. I think that would have caught my attention since I was standing right there that time.

It happened to be the first target on a four string course of fire and it was just a club match.

It was Vickers, by the way.

Since there doesn't appear to be some rule they applied that I don't understand, I'm just going to assume it was a mistake when they wrote it down and forget about it.

Thanks for all your replies!

[Lewiston]

Ok, I've been playing around in IDPA for a few months now, mostly trying not to:

1. Shoot myself

2. Shoot anyone else

3. Get disqualified

4. Keep the rounds in the bullet trap or range trap (no floor, ceiling, or wall)

I've succeeded pretty well in those limited objectives so far.

It's good to have goals!

I'm sure you've been told that #3 will happen eventually.

Nature of the beast.

It sounds like someone goofed the score.

Down 8 is not possible with your description.

Club match or not, next time walk w/ the SO so you can ask/clarify before the target is taped. Others in your squad should have caught the error.

Safe shooting and have fun!

[revoman]

I don't believe #3 will eventually happen as being part of the sport. I have heard this comment a number of times and it makes me wonder why someone would tell new shooters this. I have been shooting for 37 years and not once have I been disqualified or for that matter a number of my friends and acquaintances over the years have shot safe and responsible. Yes it can happen but I would not say that it will eventually happen.

[Lewiston]

I don't believe #3 will eventually happen as being part of the sport. I have heard this comment a number of times and it makes me wonder why someone would tell new shooters this. I have been shooting for 37 years and not once have I been disqualified or for that matter a number of my friends and acquaintances over the years have shot safe and responsible. Yes it can happen but I would not say that it will eventually happen.

I humbly disagree.

It was not written in malice but a simple fact. The more you participate in "matches" the greater the chance something will happen that will result in a DQ. I can count a number of times when the DQ was the result of a freak occurrence, not a blatant safety violation. Example: revolver barrel caught in snow fence wall and pulled out of shooter hand while shooter on the move. It happens.

My RO and SO instructors made it clear it's a matter of "when" not "if". It happens and and shooters need to understand it's part of the game and not get worked up when it does. While I will go out of my way to help a new shooter I will DQ them if necessary. Again it part of the game nothing more.

[lora]

I don't believe #3 will eventually happen as being part of the sport. I have heard this comment a number of times and it makes me wonder why someone would tell new shooters this. I have been shooting for 37 years and not once have I been disqualified or for that matter a number of my friends and acquaintances over the years have shot safe and responsible. Yes it can happen but I would not say that it will eventually happen.

I humbly disagree.

It was not written in malice but a simple fact. The more you participate in "matches" the greater the chance something will happen that will result in a DQ. I can count a number of times when the DQ was the result of a freak occurrence, not a blatant safety violation. Example: revolver barrel caught in snow fence wall and pulled out of shooter hand while shooter on the move. It happens.

My RO and SO instructors made it clear it's a matter of "when" not "if". It happens and and shooters need to understand it's part of the game and not get worked up when it does. While I will go out of my way to help a new shooter I will DQ them if necessary. Again it part of the game nothing more.

Lewiston-- I'm with you, absolutely no malice. I think if you are, as any serious athlete, pushing the limits of your ability to improve, a DQ will happen. Nearly all these DQ's I've seen are generally regarded as bizarre circumstances, but never the less a DQ. I think it would be an interesting question to ask of all our Grand Masters or Masters. Have you ever been DQ'd? I suspect 95 - 100% would answer yes, or if not officially called on, would acknowledge to be an offender at one point.

[revoman]

I think we can agree to disagree as I have competed in

matches from local, area, nationals and international. I do think that there are a lot of competitors out there that have numerous "matches" under their belt and they have not experienced a DQ.

Saying that because you are a shooter and that you compete in matches you will eventually DQ is like saying that if you fly airplanes or fly in them it is the nature of the beast that you will crash or experience a crash. Same for anything in life that you do. Again can it happen, yes it can. But will it happen for sure as a known fact, I don't think so.

If I ever DQ before I stop going to matches it will be from a mistake that I made by not preparing myself properly for the task at hand. Not because it was my time.

Dean

[Carmoney]

Dean, you sound exactly like Sam. He just told me over the weekend that he doesn't think he will ever get DQ'd. This is what I told him: Sooner or later, it happens to almost everybody who shoots a lot of matches. Even the safest and most responsible shooters can inadvertently violate a safety rule.

Lewiston cites an excellent example in his scenario above where the gun barrel snags on the snow fence wall. I had a similar DQ in which my loaded gun fell out of a CR Speed holster on a stage where you had to start on one knee, and then on the start signal jump up and throw a dummy grenade at a barrel downrange with your strong hand. I must have bumped the gun during my wind-up, because when I went to draw, it was already on the ground.

Heck, I know of a situation where a competitor was DQ'd from an area match because the RO's rain jacket got snagged on his gun and pulled it from the holster prior to the "range is clear" command.

If someone who has shot for a long time tells me he has never DQ'd, I would question what type of matches he shoots, and whether he might have shot most of those matches at places where the rules have not been enforced all that rigorously. Because stuff does happen--and sooner or later it will likely happen to you!

[revoman]

I understand yours and Lewiston's point of view but I still don't agree with that it will happen to all who shoot matches. I hope that when my shooting days are over I will be able to still claim that I was never DQ'd.

The example of the gun being snag by the fence tells me the shooter was not aware of where the muzzle of his gun was at all times. He should have been able to recognize the possibility of a snag and when close to the fence make sure to keep sufficient distance to avoid a snag. The RO jacket could have been avoided if when the competitor holstered his pistol and before he removed his hand from the pistol he locked it in. Then the jacket could have never pulled it out. As for yours my friend that is why I no longer use a CR Speed Holster as I had heard to many stories of guns falling out and when I am unsure that I can perform a task prior to the draw without compromising my revolver in the holster I leave it locked, It may add a 1/2 sec to the draw and that is a 1/2 sec well spent to avoid a DQ.

Again all could have been avoided if all things had been done as stated above. Maybe I am to cautious or anal, probably the latter as I have been called a A-hole and I thought they were just stating how anal I am. :roflol:I think I have hijacked this thread enough and hopefully Robport you will never experience a DQ in your shooting career.