IDPA REVOLVER

[Carmoney]

Duane, from literally day one of the "ESR era" I have been predicting that THE ideal ESR gun will be a 4" 627 8-shooter loaded with 200-gr. RN cast bullets just hot enough to make the new "enhanced" power factor. These will not be any less controllable than anything you'd shoot out of a 625 that also makes power factor. Hell, a bunch of us used to shoot pins with N-frame .357s loaded with 230-gr. bullets at over 1000 fps--we can all do the power factor math on that one--my 11-year-old had no problem running pin tables with my 27 (factory barrel) and those loads at a pin match back in Sept.

The 8-rd. moonclips won't reload quite as fast, but those extra couple rounds will save several standing reloads at the typical local or sanctioned IDPA match, which will more than offset that. At the MO State Championships last year (where I managed to finish 1st EX in SSR), having 8 rounds in the gun would have been a tremendous advantage.

If I decide to shoot ESR this year, I guarantee you this is the combination I will procure and compete with. (I guess that makes me gamey, huh?) I even have a 5" 627, guess I just need a hacksaw blade to be state-of-the-art....

Bill Wilson says he thinks it will be a wash, but I think that would only be true if course designers made an effort to have things mostly 6-round neutral, which they will never consistently do.

Mike

[Duane Thomas]

Okay, so you can shoot the same revolver in either SSR or ESR. And this is bad thing, how?

[Carmoney]

Well, I think it's a bad thing because of the equipment race, real or perceived, that will be launched in ESR.

Although theoretically legal, it wouldn't be very practical to shoot a 4" 627 in SSR, for three reasons: (1) it would not shoot to the same point of aim with ideal ESR ammo versus ideal SSR ammo, (2) although you can use an 8-shooter in SSR, you can only load with 6 rounds--I've never figured out how anybody would keep that straight in a match situation, and (3) there are currently no speedloaders on the market which could be used for SSR, except those rubber ones and they don't work very well. Having two cylinders fitted to the gun would not be viable, either, because the hand on the 8-shot models is different, and would not properly index a 6-rd. cylinder.

Personally, if I were to decide to shoot both categories, I would probably just shoot one of my K-frames for SSR and build up an 8-shot N-frame for ESR. Certainly doable. With IDPA sorta dying on the vine here locally, though, I'm not real excited about spending the money to do all this.

Mike

[Duane Thomas]

Carmoney,

Just so you'll know, my "this is a bad thing, how" comment was directed at revchuck's post, not yours (i.e. a six-shot revolver was what I was thinking of, though you certainly make some interesting points about crossing over from division to division with an 8-shot). You were just faster on the Send button than I!

[rwmagnus]

I've tried to stay out of the frey until more final decisions are made regarding the new rules. Yes I know many are being modified already. So ESR is here to stay lets make the best of it.

I feel like the positive retention devise in the moonclip holders is a change we may have to live with. That being the case does anybody know of a moonclip holder that complies to the new rules? Most everything talked about is in regard to speedloaders which at this time I don't care to use.

BTW Bill Wilson has posted a reply to many of the discussions on the forum boards as well as emails sent to IDPA. Obviuosly the personal email attacks against Bill have taken their toll, accurate or not they are uncalled for. It's a sad day when firearm enthusiasts start dividing our own ranks. I believe it's better to act vs react. In the long run everything should work out okay. If not there are other shooting disciplines to participate in.

[Duane Thomas]

I like this one. And USPSA/IPSC too, actually!

[redmist10]

Thanks to the efforts of Bill, Joyce, and the countless others behind the scenes that have patiently listened to our comments, complaints, and consternations; I truly believe that the irregularities and imbalances of the SSR and ESR

division(s) have been fixed to a satisfactory and very usable degree.

True to my word, I will continue my “crusade” to raise the SSR and ESR divisions to record setting levels!

Understandably, there will still be some mulling over of the fine points concerning equipment, etc. but all things considered we have a workable rulebook concerning these two divisions. TONS better than original and much better than the first draft of revisions.

Thanks Bill and Joyce, etc. for your efforts .

[justicentyme]

I just browsed the web to get a view of the 'approved' Safariland 371 Split-Six speed loader holders mentioned in the comments by IDPA president Bill Wilson.

I assume that moonclips will also have to be in a similiar 'containment' device.

Can anyone explain why the semi auto mags must NOT be in a similiar 'containment' device?

Thanks

James

[rwmagnus]

I just browsed the web to get a view of the 'approved' Safariland 371 Split-Six speed loader  holders mentioned in the comments by IDPA president Bill Wilson.

I assume that moonclips will also have to be in a similiar 'containment' device.

Can anyone explain why the semi auto mags must NOT be in a similiar 'containment' device?

Thanks

James

No I don't have an answer for that but the real question is what moonclip carrier is available that is legal? The Safariland Split Six is designed for speedloaders not moonholders.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

No I don't have an answer for that but the real question is what moonclip carrier is available that is legal? The Safariland Split Six is designed for speedloaders not moonholders.

All I find so far are those made by DelFatti. I think Dillon sells them.

The model split six I have is a 370. Won't work for Comp I loaders or moon clips.

[rwmagnus]

RGS thank you.

Before I rush off to but compliant moonclip holders like the DelFatti model you pictured I'm going to wait for the final rules. It looks like a pretty good design but for the life of me I don't understand why this rule is being implemented other than to slow down the reloads..

LOL I'd love to see the auto guys have two retention magazine holders behind their firearm! Yea yea yea I know I'm preaching to the choir. Final rules should be out in another month.

Heck with all the rain we've had in SoCal most all the outdoor ranges are under water and I can't see them opening for another month or two anyway. For now it will be indoor shooting only.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Before I rush off to but compliant moonclip holders like the DelFatti model you pictured I'm going to wait for the final rules. It looks like a pretty good design but for the life of me I don't understand why this rule is being implemented other than to slow down the reloads..

Why do you need holders? Pockets work. I also found some apeed loader holders that appear to be just what the rule book ordered.

I need a member from the UK to contact me so I can get some info.

[rwmagnus]

Before I rush off to but compliant moonclip holders like the DelFatti model you pictured I'm going to wait for the final rules. It looks like a pretty good design but for the life of me I don't understand why this rule is being implemented other than to slow down the reloads..

Why do you need holders? Pockets work. I also found some apeed loader holders that appear to be just what the rule book ordered.

I need a member from the UK to contact me so I can get some info.

Hey pockets are a great idea.

Let's see just go it's not some gamer pocket I'll put snaps on the flaps along with the velcro just to make sure everything is secure. Hell maybe a combination lock to go with it would be a good idea. Better yet all of the above except keep the rounds loose along with a moonclip so they lay flatter inside the pocket. Just jam on the combo lock, hit the snaps then velcro, load the clip then load the gun and get back in the fight. Yea that should just about do it.

okay just kidding.

[michael_aos]

I'd been toying with buying a S&W 610, on the off-chance that I might want to shoot both USPSA & IDPA.

All this discussion is pushing me toward a 5" 625 and just forget about IDPA entirely.

Mike

[revchuck]

Okay, so you can shoot the same revolver in either SSR or ESR. And this is bad thing, how?

Duane - Sorry to get back so late. Amazing how life interferes with internet postings.

I wasn't implying that it was a bad thing, just stating that the situation exists. If a shooter wanted to get a 686/GP100 cut for moon clips and keep it for shooting SSR, s/he could.

Actually, if the ESR rules stand, one will be able to shoot an unmodified M19 in ESR, as long as the ammo makes the PF. I'm enough of a gamer that I'll shoot either my 681 or my BBQ gun (nickle four inch M57).

[rwmagnus]

I'd been toying with buying a S&W 610, on the off-chance that I might want to shoot both USPSA & IDPA.

All this discussion is pushing me toward a 5" 625 and just forget about IDPA entirely.

Mike

Give a 4" S&W625 a chance as well. I use both and like the 4" a little better. All the IDPA hoopla will settle down. In the event it does interest you the 4" will be legal, no way will they go back to the 5".

I prefer the 625 over the 610 because the 45ACP round is so versatile. Roundnose bullets are much easier to find as well. It's a dream caliber to reload. Not taking anything away from the 610 it has gained in popularity over the last year or so but the 625 is still the king.

[kdmoore]

Not taking anything away from the 610 it has gained in popularity over the last year or so but the 625 is still the king.

Not too popular. Gun dealer I highly trust tells me that they have stopped, or will stop production soon. Possible that S&W got wind of the changes and saw the writing on the wall? Or maybe sales were down? Who knows.

[redmist10]

Thanks to the efforts of Bill, Joyce, and the countless others behind the scenes that have patiently listened to our comments, complaints, and consternations; I truly believe that the irregularities and imbalances of the SSR and ESR

division(s) have been fixed to a satisfactory and very usable degree.

True to my word, I will continue my “crusade” to raise the SSR and ESR divisions to record setting levels!

Understandably, there will still be some mulling over of the fine points concerning equipment, etc. but all things considered we have a workable rulebook concerning these two divisions. TONS better than original and much better than the first draft of revisions.

Thanks Bill and Joyce, etc. for your efforts .

[COF]

It's interesting that the Bladetech moonclip carrier is specifically banned when it is more concealable then the Delfatti pouches shown or the typical speedloader pouch. If properly tensioned it will hold a moonclip as well as anything else.

I wrote a two page letter to HQ the other day on the issues that I saw in the rule book. I'm not looking for miracles, just the application of logic and common sense.

Jerry

[EricBudd]

I like the ideal of 1 3 second penalty if you loose your speedloader/moonclip/magazine. Carry what you like and take your chances. If the holder is secure on the belt and will hold loaded speedloaders/moonclips/magazines when turned upside down and shaken they should be legal.

I tend to agree that 7 and 8 shooters should not be legal for ESR for the same reason a Glock 21 in CDP can't be loaded to 10 rounds. If ESR allows 8 rounds, Smith will build a 'must have' 4 inch 627 weighing 49oz in 38 Super. If you want to win, you will need a new gun. (I wonder about a 4 inich X fram with 8 rounds of 45 acp.....)

I'll just wait and see what happens. My weekly IDPA/Defensive Pistol match has no intention of enforcing the new rules and, if IDPA doesn't come thought, there is always USPSA and ICORE.

[Ted Murphy]

My weekly IDPA/Defensive Pistol match has no intention of enforcing the new rules

But then your club isn't IDPA affiliated, so it's pretty easy to stick with the old rules.

Ted

[rwmagnus]

...Right now Bill is hearing from a very SMALL contingent of revolver shooters.  You have a chance to make a point - take it.  Send Bill W. an Email and express your opinion regarding these two issues or any other SSR ESR issue before it is too late. 

Wanted you to clarify the ammo positions. Are we now back to two in front and pone behind the holster?

I sent on email to IDPA HQ right after the new rules came out and they replied to some of my suggestions. Is it better to send an email directly to Bill Wilson?

BTW I'm on the same page as you w/ one exception if they let 8 shot revos in the class I'll still compete but I feel the same way, 8 shots has an advantage.

[dcloudy777]

I got another question... what about those of us who reload revolvers the "wrong" way. I keep the gun in my right hand and reload it like the auto I trained on. Providing I can even find moonclip holders that are legal, can I wear them behind my weak-side hip where I wear auto magazines? Right in front of the gun doesn't do me much good. Or is my reloading method "gaming" and should get me FTDRed, DQd, and maybe deported?

DanO

[Ted Murphy]

I got another question... what about those of us who reload revolvers the "wrong" way.

That's the "Tastes Great/Less Filling" argument of revolver shooting.

I load with my strong hand, but there are a lot of guys who do it with their weak hand. Seems a lot of times the guys who start on autos load with their weak hand, the guys who were taught by an old hand use their strong hand. Not always true but it is quite often that way.

I've been practicing with my weak hand because when you're in the passenger side of a car in an idpa stage, it's easier to get to the speedloader on your week side, so 1 of my 3 alloted speedloaders is placed there.

Neither technique is wrong, provided it is working for you.

[dcloudy777]

I just do it that way because that's how I train with the auto I carry everyday. I'm used to grabbing spare ammo behind the off-side hip. Can I put my moonclips there in IDPA? Reading the rules I'm not sure.

DanO