Vlad Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 (edited) Sure, but thats easy if you do the rest. Also, I'm pretty sure practiscore keeps a log of score changes. Edited June 19, 2014 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 And before you know it, we are going to have to have encryption and passwords on the devices so that the forensic trail can be verified. Two things I asked for in Practiscore is a timestamp on score entries and a password required option to change a score. and identification to know who actually entered the password. I think authenticated entries would drive for more use of personal devices that are virtually networked together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester121 Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Practiscore already has comprehensive (internal) logging of all score/time changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alma Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Practiscore already has comprehensive (internal) logging of all score/time changes. You can audit that a change has occurred but can you tell who made the change? That is where it needs to go if not already capable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Yep, you don't know who did it, just what and when. I have seen cases of multiple scores come in, for the same shooter on the same stage, on different devices. It was not pretty to sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 As stated earlier, at the end of the run, as the final commands are issued I show the timer to the scorekeeper, (as they train you in RO class or at lease in mine). If the shooter asks to see the time, I will respect that request and show him/her, after the" range is clear command" and I have announced the time and heard it back from the scorekeeper correctly. What I will not do is show splits. Unless the rule book tells us to do that I won't as it takes up to much time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What I will not do is show splits. Unless the rule book tells us to do that I won't as it takes up to much time. I see myself in the service business when I RO so if they want to see the splits I just hand them the timer (of course after I have called the time and the scorekeeper has called it back) and go score targets. I have always gotten it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuelie777 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 ktm300, thanks. I forgot about it. Yep, I could do it. Just hand them the timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If I think there's interference during a run, I don't announce or show the timer to the shooter until he declines a reshoot offer. This is per the rules, no? Otherwise I show the scorekeeper the timer during ULASC, then announce the time and get the readback/repeat from the scorer. Haven't ever been asked to show the timer before, though that may change now. I like Chuck's practice of seeing the last shot recorded, and will probably also show the shooter the timer as I read off the time for the first time. Doing all this to be accurate is nice, but it's a shame that the loss of trust is a factor. :^( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
remoandiris Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Doing all this to be accurate is nice, but it's a shame that the loss of trust is a factor. :^( I believe most USPSA members believe PVH's was an isolated cheater. I doubt they will lose trust of ALL ROs because of him. I also see nothing wrong with the BoD implementing slight changes to the rules allowing competitors to see the timer after their run if they want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitedog Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 At our shoot this past Sunday we sort of made a joke of it. "Hey don't deuce me man". That kind of stuff. All the shooters I know believe it to be an isolated incident. A sad, pathetic act by a single man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 You think? This is how you do the timer: I'm putting mag away, my G22 is locked back, timer is behind and away from next bay, the next frame is scorer stepping up to get time off. ULSCH.Then look at timer if you wish to verify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 You think? This is how you do the timer:Screenshot CAPS 2014.jpg I'm putting mag away, my G22 is locked back, timer is behind and away from next bay, the next frame is scorer stepping up to get time off. ULSCH.Then look at timer if you wish to verify. I think. Isolated incident. Bad juju for sure, but I don't worry about it because just about every RO I've seen was already holding the timer for others to see during ULSC. Now I'm pretty sure everyone will do it. Without a doubt, I have learned from this incident already, and it has improved my RO-ing and my communication with shooters, and I believe that will increase shooters' confidence in the integrity of the process. When you think about it, it's always a red flag in ANY business when one person has control over anything without oversight. In system administration or money handling, you try to make sure there are always at least 2 people involved. You don't handle cash AND do the books. You don't have admin access to all machines AND admin access to the logs. Two officials (and anyone else standing nearby who wishes) should always see the timer. At a major match shooters should always have a paper backup of their scores before they leave the stage. Good processes will certainly prevent a repeat of this debacle, but they'll also reduce or eliminate the existing human errors, like turning in a scoresheet without all the hits, so the shooter has to reshoot at the very end of the day and has a crappy run and everyone is unhappy about it (this unfortunately happened last weekend). Trust, but verify. Asking to see the timer doesn't mean you think the RO is cheating, it just means you want to see the timer to verify. I'm cool with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 LOL! I'm still having flashbacks of Jay Worden teaching the RO class and his wonderful impression of (Filipino) shooters asking "What's my time?" @motosapiens hit the nail on the head with the comment about needing (and sticking to) good processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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