Gun does not return to original POA after recoil

[Blackstone45]

I've been having trouble with my recoil management, in that my gun will recoil upwards, and then stay there. This is with me not trying to "help" it back down. Am I taking the idea that the "front sight should return to the original position without any user input" a little too literally?

I am not physically a very strong person, but I've been training my grip strength. I would say I grip the gun with about 50% of my total power.

[alma]

Try 100% grip strength. Grip the gun like you mean it and like you don't want it to flip in the first place.

What does your actual grip look like? How well in your weak hand engaged?

[Blackstone45]

My support hand is angled in a way that the thumb is pointing straight forwards. The heel of my support hand is basically covering the left side of the pistol grip. I've found that after one or two shots (of 9mm), my support hand has started to "come loose". Is this just a weak grip? This seems to happen even if I deathgrip my gun.

[alma]

That tells me that you might not have enough of your support hand engaged into the grip. I recorded this for another shooter some time ago buy continue to find it useful. There is a second video that explains arm and grip tension that I can post in a bit as well. Other than good strong grip, correct stance, and positive arm tension I would say that you need to fight that recoil and actively try to keep the muzzle flat while you shoot.

[alma]

Here it is:

[Ssanders224]

Use Pro-Grip on your weak hand palm, and on the back of your strong hand. Always.

Past that, just work on your grip strength. Its not terribly complicated, you are trying to keep the gun from moving, so do what it takes. Don't wory about 50%, 100%, 60/40, yada yada... just try to keep your sights from moving.

[Blackstone45]

Thanks for the videos alma, happy that you showed your SP-01 Shadow, because that's the exact same gun I have.

[alma]

Thanks for the videos alma, happy that you showed your SP-01 Shadow, because that's the exact same gun I have.

Then you may need to break out the grip tape for the weak hand grip. The aluminum grips leave much to be desired when it comes to having proper traction.

[al503]

You could always try a heavier recoil spring. As long as you're not causing the slide to short stroke, it should help dip the muzzle down when going into battery (compared to a lighter spring).

[Blackstone45]

Thanks for the videos alma, happy that you showed your SP-01 Shadow, because that's the exact same gun I have.

Then you may need to break out the grip tape for the weak hand grip. The aluminum grips leave much to be desired when it comes to having proper traction.

Interesting because mine came with these fat black rubbery grips

al503: I may consider that, but I want to avoid spending money to fix a problem if I have basic techniques to improve on first.

[alma]

The rubber grips should be fine. Many prefer those depending on how large your hands are. For smaller hands the aluminum thin or VZ grips are nice. I really like the feel of the stock rubber grips though.

[Blackstone45]

Where would you recommend putting any grip tape on? I have the blue aluminium thin grips too:

[alma]

I will try to post pictures tonight but it's essentially everything you can get where your left palm sits. You can what I generally do in my profile picture above. I may end up just covering the entire left grip in grip tape eventually. There right is fine for me as is.

[alma]

This is the pattern I use now but may alter it to get a bit more tape on my left palm. Disregard the Glock. It was between grip tape jobs.

Edited June 5, 2014 by alma

[Blackstone45]

Thanks for your help alma. I'll study my grip a little more and figure out the best place for tape

[thegeneric]

Weak hand wrist locked (not death grip) at 45 degrees is how I get my sights back on target.

[glockified]

After enough practice, your muscle memory should have you back on target every time IF you put in enough dry fire practice.

[alma]

This is the pattern I use now but may alter it to get a bit more tape on my left palm. Disregard the Glock. It was between grip tape jobs.

Just waited to give an update on grip type jobs. I have globe two just covering my entire left-hand grip in grip tape and that has improved on my previous improvements.

[Tom C]

I've been having trouble with my recoil management, in that my gun will recoil upwards, and then stay there. This is with me not trying to "help" it back down. Am I taking the idea that the "front sight should return to the original position without any user input" a little too literally?

I am not physically a very strong person, but I've been training my grip strength. I would say I grip the gun with about 50% of my total power.

Not only are you taking that idea too literally, whoever "coined" that phrase is 100% wrong. You MUST interact with the firearm and its recoil for it to "return" to it's original position. Mike Seeklander has some excellent videos dealing with grip and control (as seen above). You do not need the strength of body builder to manage recoil. It's how we manage that recoil

[Jshuberg]

The gun can move in 3 different ways during recoil:

1) The grip of your gun slips in your hands from it's original location.

2) The muzzle flips upward and possibly a little bit laterally.

3) the entire gun, as well as your hands move up in space.

The means to control or manage each of these motions is different:

1) This is grip strength, and the location, coverage and uniformity of your hands on the grip of the pistol. If your hands are located in the correct place, it takes very little strength to keep the gun from moving in your hands. The more surface contact you have with the pistol, the more surface friction you have. More friction, less hand strength required.

2) This is where (IMHO) most people go wrong. First, you do not need to eliminate muzzle flip, you need to return the sight back to where it came from after muzze flip. Using hand strength is *not* the most efficient or effective way to accomplish this. Think about it - if you recognise that the gun wants to recoil and the muzzle wants to flip, and that rather than fighting it you allow it to happen, you have conserved all of the energy and effort that would have gone into fighting the gun. You don't want to make your hands a vice, you want to make them a strong spring. After the muzzle flips up, your "spring" will pull the muzzle back down again and it will settle back to where it came from. You dont do this with hand strength, or with chest strength, or by pressing your hands together and squishing you gun between them. You do this by *rotating* your hands inward, and it doesn't take much rotation at all to accomplish this.

The only hand strength you need when using this technique to manage muzzle flip is enough to keep your hands from peeling away at the bottom of the grip. Thats it. You use the muscles in your arms and shoulders to rotate your hands inward and "choke" the grip of the gun high up, precisely where you want most of the force controlling the gun. Try this - stand with your arms extended in front of you with your thumbs up like fonzie, and you elbows pointing down. Now turn your hands inward so your thumbs are pointing at each other. If you rotated inward with your forearms, your elbows will still be pointing down if you bend them. If you rotated inward with your shoulders, you elbows will now be pointing out horizontally. If you rotated with a combination of shoulder and forearm, your elbows will be pointed somewhere between straight down and horizontal. A lot of people prefer to rotate using their forearm muscles only, but I would recommend using both sets of muscles, and let your shoulders do a little bit more than your forearms, since they are larger and stronger and will fatigue less than your forearm muscles. Again, it doesn't take much strength, and the goal is to pinch the gun between your hands high up like a scissors. If your forearm muscles are super tight, back them off. Use the least amount of strength necessary to rotate your hand inward so that the front sight comes back down again automatically.

I'd recommend using almost no rotation to start, and let the gun jump around while slowly increasing inward rotation until the front sight comes back down into the general area of the rear sight on its own. At this point you can fine tune it by rotating one or both hands a little more or a little less, and raising or lowering one or both elbows very slightly to change the angle your hands contact the gun by a few degrees. By doing this you'll find that you can "steer" where the front sight will return to with a great degree of accuracy and control. Again, you don't do this with hand strength, you do this by rotating your hands inward with your forearm and shoulder muscles. When this is all working correctly your hand muscles are at less than 50%, your forearms are twisting inward but not taught, the muzzle of the gun will flip during recoil, but will settle back down into the rear in less time than you can physically operate the trigger.

3) If your gun and hands move upward in space during recoil, this is very easy to fix. Imageine that you are pulling down on a rope with outstretched arms. When you do this your side muscles will pull down on your arms, and hold them in the same place, and your hands won't creep upward when shooting.

Hope this helps and makes sense....

Edited June 27, 2014 by Jshuberg

[glockified]

Great videos alma. I have a CZ SP-01 with the thin aluminum grips. I will be installing more grip tape on the left (support) side. Thanks!

[phidelt208]

great videos thanks for the posts

[Religious Shooter]

I've been having trouble with my recoil management, in that my gun will recoil upwards, and then stay there. This is with me not trying to "help" it back down. Am I taking the idea that the "front sight should return to the original position without any user input" a little too literally?

I am not physically a very strong person, but I've been training my grip strength. I would say I grip the gun with about 50% of my total power.

Where/whom did your quote come from?

[HardChrome]

Are you flinching or jerking the trigger?

[1sickPuppy]

Check this grip video out

Plus this video on recoil springs

Edited August 31, 2014 by 1sickPuppy